Omg......

[Jjin]

Ok, except he isnt atrox at all.

I doubled checked, and your agent isn't who I thought it was. The guy I was thinking of isn't even in Storm. Apologies.

[Tiamin]

Point still stands though, if an Enforcer cannot kill a fixer, but another fixer can then they must have better damage than me

No, your point assumes the fixer is standing still vs another fixer while the enforcer is being kited around.
The only way for one fixer to kill another fixer is if they both stand around and chuck poop at eachother until one of them goes to the ground. Happy?
Oh wait, incase you're wondering how long it takes for one fixer to kill another fixer while both are kiting, about 52minutes.

[K1nkstaah]

I doubled checked, and your agent isn't who I thought it was. The guy I was thinking of isn't even in Storm. Apologies.

Also: Mongo rage is not a profession perk.

No, your point assumes the fixer is standing still vs another fixer while the enforcer is being kited around.
The only way for one fixer to kill another fixer is if they both stand around and chuck poop at eachother until one of them goes to the ground. Happy?
Oh wait, incase you're wondering how long it takes for one fixer to kill another fixer while both are kiting, about 52minutes.

52 minutes is faster than infinity.

[Tiamin]

52 minutes is faster than infinity.

Ok, you have 1 class you can't kill! Grats =)

List what you think are the professions who CAN kill a fixer, then list the ones who will kill a fixer before you list the ones who will never bother to kill a fixer.
Also, list the professions a fixer can kill.

Then, go ahead and list the professions you can kill on your enfo, people who can kill you (while you run away I assume cause that's what you're putting into your assumption about fixers), and then list the ones who will never bother to try to kill you while you run away.

[K1nkstaah]

All I ever said about fixers is that they are VERY hard to kill and there's only one class that can reliably kill them without major hassles (NT).

And that that needs to be taken into effect if FunCom decide to radically boost Fixer offence.

[Tiamin]

All I ever said about fixers is that they are VERY hard to kill and there's only one class that can reliably kill them without major hassles (NT).

And that that needs to be taken into effect if FunCom decide to radically boost Fixer offence.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh! But I suppose it's A-OK! For a class that is harder to kill than us (for the majority of the AO community) gets a weapon that has same dmg type as the majority of their dd perks right?
With some of them doing 1,1k regular hits?
While fixers still run around with split dmg types on their weapons?
With a offhand gun that does dmg every 11s?
With no other proper options to go around with?

We need to be handled with care, cause giving us a weapon that would up our dmg to be on par with other classes would make us imbalanced.
I agree, this goes for all classes but apparently it should only apply to us.

Besides, we don't need a RADICAL boost, we need to be able to have some options that actually work combined with debuffs that makes a difference and actually lands.

Why is this discussion going on in this thread anyway?
Summon ammo needs a buff!

[K1nkstaah]

Bitter, much?

Would you prefer some damage that has about 2400 AR and 5 minutes recharge? And no, I think while it takes some time to kill Enforcers, enforcers are NOT impossible to kill for any class in the game. (Nor should they be)

[Kaylinne]

List what you think are the professions who CAN kill a fixer, then list the ones who will kill a fixer before you list the ones who will never bother to kill a fixer.
Also, list the professions a fixer can kill.

Then, go ahead and list the professions you can kill on your enfo, people who can kill you (while you run away I assume cause that's what you're putting into your assumption about fixers), and then list the ones who will never bother to try to kill you while you run away.

*waiting for the list*

[Fifty50]

Well like I said above, fixers are the hardest victim in the game for me to actually kill. I will attack any other class before a fixer as a general rule, on either of the chars I play

This proves that fixers are not much of a threat to you. If they were they should be high on your list. Like NTs are pretty much the top of mine, becasue it they are around I will be taking trips to decon room, every time I reach core or w/e. I only succeed 1/10, but if i dont try to jump him/her, Iam definatly dead. But I guess enforcers dont have worries like that.

[Tiamin]

Bitter, much?

Would you prefer some damage that has about 2400 AR and 5 minutes recharge? And no, I think while it takes some time to kill Enforcers, enforcers are NOT impossible to kill for any class in the game. (Nor should they be)

Actually, yes.

Oh by no means, a enforcer who sticks around is gonna die to a fixer but it might take a while.
Or the enforcer can just run away, which I can't really stop.

Think Noirhybrid and I ran to 5 cap spots before I just decided to call it the quits and go kill a greenie.
When it comes to mobility, fixers and enforcers have something alike, until they meet a NT who will either spec root them or just kill them.

Sound better?

[Pafpuf]

I also alphakilled her keeper with fullauto from an agent, wooo!

Which is nothing to brag about as my keeper was never evade nor pvp setup. 16k hp and no evades can't be too hard to kill as an agent, can it ?

Which is harder to do against someone who isnt melee, obviously - But I was just stating that vs another fixer, fixers MUST outdps my enforcer.

You never used the onehander, obviously. And your statement is wrong when it comes to 1hb/he enforcers, I don't know what you did to yours.

[asquared2]

This debate really surprises me...

Back before 14.4 when fixers were template professions with nothing but evac, roots, snares, and a short hot, a fixer could still kill an enforcer. It was one of the few profs we had a chance against. That doesn't mean fixers didn't need long HoTs, Team GSF, working add def on grid armor, SMG buffs, and NCU buffs. It doesn't make much sense to argue that all because one profession has trouble with another in a 1vs1 match up, no changes are needed. I can't say how it is now because I don't play, but that seems like the gist of Kink's argument: "I can't kill you, so stop whining."

On the other hand, I can't understand how in the hell a 1hb/1he enforcer feels outgunned/outdamaged by a fixer. I remember all that damage I took from Rockyou in our duel (specials alpha/reg hits/that perk with the low evade check), and if I stopped kiting for more than 2 seconds I was in serious danger. I think you should blame the 30% damage cap change, not the fixer profession, because it sounds like that's the problem now. Your sneak/fast/brawl/dimach is probably a lot less effective now because of the new carebear damage rules.

It wasn't even just that duel either, whether it was the stick & pipe, the blood bat/mace, or the two AI weapons, all I can remember about fighting a 1h using enforcer was myself being a sucker for pain.

[Pafpuf]

I can't say how it is now because I don't play

Plenty of crit decrease making AS even worse, this and this. Enforcers are extremely hard to kill with fixer damage, one with rrfe can stand there forever.

[asquared2]

Effects
On Use Self Hit Health 510 .. 510 10 hits, 2s delay

Duration 4 minutes

This screen contains 1371 layers.

ROFL.

The mongo HoT's per tick is even better than the survival perk, plus he's got bio rejuvenation.

I think this discussion is over.

[Pafpuf]

10 hits though, so it's "only" a 5100 hot. Spammable though so it doesn't matter really.

[K1nkstaah]

You never used the onehander, obviously. And your statement is wrong when it comes to 1hb/he enforcers, I don't know what you did to yours.

Nothing, he's pretty much fine/as good as it gets, my point, WHICH WAS A POINT IN JEST - Was that a fixer must do more damage to another fixer than an enf or any melee. Its true, but is obviously skewed.

My real point was as always, a class with HUGE defence needs to not be just wantonly given massive offence as a fix. And vs MOST classes, fixers have always had big big defence relative to other classes and this hasn't really changed at all.

Giving fixers an Ofab cobra 1 handed SMG, and a 1 handed SMG Dshark is NOT a fix for fixers.

10 hits though, so it's "only" a 5100 hot. Spammable though so it doesn't matter really.

It's 5100 over 20 seconds, which puts it somewhere like 1/4th as good as CH

This proves that fixers are not much of a threat to you. If they were they should be high on your list. Like NTs are pretty much the top of mine, becasue it they are around I will be taking trips to decon room, every time I reach core or w/e. I only succeed 1/10, but if i dont try to jump him/her, Iam definatly dead. But I guess enforcers dont have worries like that.

Fixers AREN'T much of a threat to my enforcer. this is true. But on the other hand, not much is a threat to a fixer. At least not compared to any of the other classes in this game that an Enforcer is far more threatening to.

So if you have a class that I cant dent, suddenly becomes a MASSIVE THREAT then ofc it's an issue which shouldnt exist in any game. Because they wouldnt suddenly become MASSIVE THREATS to enforcers, they'd become massive threats to pretty much everyone else, whilst retaining pretty huge def.

That's all I was ever saying in the first place.

[Kaylinne]

So you are afraid we may become MASSIVE THREAT?
Dont worry, that will happen like never, maybe not even then

[K1nkstaah]

I'm saying asking for a one handed Dshark and a one handed cobra at the same time is stupid and unrealistic for a class that has as much defence as a fixer does.

[-Bugsplat]

You know.... by taking a great thread and turning it into your piss-fest, you've effectively killed a little piece of the forum.

Way to necro and destroy.

[Tiamin]

You know.... by taking a great thread and turning it into your piss-fest, you've effectively killed a little piece of the forum.

Way to necro and destroy.

Oh noes!