Mp or Crat

[Idied]

I really want my first 220 but I can't decide between Mp and Crat. Crat is 209 and my Mp is 213 with the pattern for rihwen. From what I've read on this board, is that Mps suck and are the worst class? I'd like to level to 220 on Mp but If I end up unable to PVP or do decent dmg in pve what is the point. Crat seems such an overused class but It seems like the best for DD/soloing.

Long story short - I want to solo (ai raids/inf/prisoners) PVP and do decent pvm dmg, which do you recommend?

Thanks for any help.

[Lazy]

crat

[Camar]

I would really love to say MP, but sadly it's Crat all the way.

MP=redheaded stepchild
Crat=goldenhaired lovechild

Latest example: Crats getting new pet before rebalance, while they are probably the last prof who needs help right now in any way...

[Lazy]

the sad thing is, mps look REALLY op on paper. unfortunately, it all kinda falls apart once you actually PLAY one :/

[Ahndracorvid]

crat

^ That's your short answer. He's probably right, too. Here's a longer answer on why he's probably right:

Firstly, it's not necessarily that MPs are the "worst" prof but we are a bitter and jaded lot who feel like the rest of the population treats us like the most useless class in the game. Therefore outside of people we actually befriend, we don't often get invited to teams by others. This is gonna have a negative effect on the inevitable endgame item farm you're probably going to be working through on your MP, unless you've befriended enough people to do friends-only raids on a regular basis, or you're comfortable kitten-herding strangers from LFT/Neutnet/Dnet/etc and leading your own raids.

However, if you work on finishing your crat before your MP, you'll be able to use your crat to get into teams and win items that your MP can then loot/use. Even from the perspective of a friends/org-only raid, my own experience is that I prefer to help the group out as much as possible because these are people I enjoy spending time with, and I feel like I can be of far more help on my crat than I would be on my MP.

Almost everything my MP can do my crat can do better. The exceptions are NSD which is more or less redundant for PvM these days and only useful in a handful of scenarios (particularly at TL7 which is where you are), and healing via the pet (which in relation to endgame PvM content is rather underpowered and could do with a boost. At lower levels I enjoyed being able to swap a healpet between team members to help the doc out, but as I leveled I saw diminishing returns on how much of a difference this actually makes).

You mentioned soloing. Outside of team encounters I've found that while my crat lacks a healpet to follow her around when I'm soloing, the fact that I've built her to take full advantage of all the natural AAD crats get access to means that coupled with her debuffs she doesn't even need heals most of the time anyway. I can solo a fair amount of stuff on my MP but I find soloing that same stuff to be a lot easier on my crat, and there are some things I can't solo at all on the MP but can solo on the crat.

You also mentioned PvM DD. I'm one of those people who believes adamantly that MPs can do significantly more DD than the rest of the playerbase gives them credit for. The problem is that MPs who consistently end up near/at the top of the damage dumps are in short supply, so the rest of the playerbase becomes used to seeing the stereotypical MP played by someone who doesn't seem to be able to juggle their pets effectively, doesn't seem to be aware of the prof's full toolset or how to make best use of it, keeps their blue shield equipped when they could have swapped to the red DB quest staff for DD, doesn't bother nuking, and loiters near the back of the group either on /follow or looting corpses. You don't need me to tell you a guy like that ain't gonna impress anyone with their DD. MPs played well, on the other hand, can be surprisingly high DD. It's a guilty pleasure of mine that on the occasions when I used to be more active on my MP (ie. before I made a small army of alts) I loved being able to surprise people with my DD and breaking the stereotypical mold. To this day I still get hot and bothered whenever I see some idiot claiming "durrrrp MP isn't DD bring ur solja or sumthin" because it's just f*cking ignorance of the prof's potential. It's really frustrating that as a class we have this inaccurate image problem.

Having said all that, while it takes a well-played MP to produce a significant amount of DD, an averagely-played crat can probably churn out a comparable amount of DD. Unlike MPs, crats are well-known for their DD potential. A crat ending up at the top of the damage dumps these days doesn't seem to surprise anyone, and they don't have to work as hard as MPs to achieve it.

As for PvP, I'm probably not really the best person to ask because I never finished gearing my MP for PvP and my crat is set up to be a PvM farm machine rather than a PvP killer. But from my limited experience I would say the following: don't attempt to PvP on your MP without A) SS and B) Zset. I've been an avid bow user since I rolled a paid MP, but not being able to at least temporarily swap to a Zset shield in certain situations made me frustratingly fragile. And that's coming from someone with a playstyle so aggressive they consciously sacrificed the survivability of the Zset shield because they found the idea of hiding behind it unappealing, despite understanding fully that it lets them live longer. Since I stopped regularly PvPing on my MP I'm sure the field has changed -- almost all other profs will have received an offensive boost with the Xan booster but MPs didn't get any further defensive tools to help mitigate those additional boosts. As a result I now see even fewer MPs attempting to PvP without relying on the Zset shield. The MPs who do embrace a more defensive playstyle seem to manage fairly well, though. The last remaining MPs I saw when I kept up with PvP were Styx and Rox, the latter of whom manages to be an utter beast of an MP despite not being 220 and lacking the Rihwen. So I wouldn't rule out PvP on your MP just yet as long as you're happy with a more defensive playstyle. Bear in mind the Zset shield alone isn't going to give you godmode. You'll have to build the rest of your setup so that it compliments your defences, and learn how to play your toon in a PvP environment. (As a disclaimer, I haven't PvPed on my MP for months, probably even over a year. So some of what I've said might require an update from someone who's been more active in recent times.)

As for the crat... well, crats have a lot more crowd control tools than MPs do, making it easier for them to survive getting zerged. If you like farming hate tells start charming other peoples' pets. AoE fears are lulzy. Take full advantage of your natural defences, and your access to the AS pistol and PM perks. Debuff EVERYTHING.

I would say that my crat has a better-looking kill/death ratio than my MP. Though because of my setups my crat lacks offense and my MP lacks defense when compared to others.

Crats are overused you say? Sadly there is a reason for that. Crats are effective, and they don't suffer from an image problem in the same way as MPs -- in fact, if anything, the stereotypes have given crats a boost. People think of them as gods. It's common for a new player to start off getting a prof to 220 that they enjoy playing but doesn't feature in the list of profs the rest of the playerbase stereotype as "core" profs (ie. crat, doc, sol, enf). They then look forlornly at their agent/trader/MP/etc and wonder what they could roll instead. Many of them settle on crat because out of all the "core" profs, crats are the most versatile. This makes them extremely flexible, and therefore extremely useful. That's why they are so many of them now: everyone and their brother wants one!

All in all, while I enjoy playing my crat, I would still say that playing my MP appeals to me more. I love the fact that we're the only pet prof whose pets have different functions, instead of just being additional DD totems. I love the fact that managing 3 pets with different functions requires me to multitask effectively. I love the fact that our toolset dips into a little bit of everything. I even love the "RP" background connecting MPs to the necromancer archetype that often appears in fantasy MMOs. I love the fact that we traditionally get a lot of variety in our setups, and that the prof supported a range of different playstyles. I'm just frustrated -- like everyone else here -- by the fact that while the prof has a lot of potential, this potential isn't utilized. Not just in the sense of your stereotypical meta-phailicists, but in the way it's been designed and implemented as part of the game. Here on the MP forums we've been trying for a long time to hammer out some suggestions for how to make the prof less redundant and improve its image, but most of us are sick of feeling like what we say repeatedly just falls on deaf ears. We're still evidently passionate about the prof or we wouldn't still be posting here. But... well, there's probably a reason why the image of the bitter veteran MP trolling the forums has become a stereotype in its own right. Let's put it that way.

Sorry that this has gotten so long, but hopefully that'll give you plenty of background to chew on if nothing else. Like I say, a lot of us are pretty passionate about our favorite prof. Sometimes this means we have a tendency to go on a bit.

EDIT: Lolz, I spent so long typing all this that 2 more posts have been uploaded to this thread in the meantime. I am such a dork.

[Lazy]

EDIT: Lolz, I spent so long typing all this that 2 more posts have been uploaded to this thread in the meantime. I am such a dork.

^ you are a gentle(wo?)man and a scholar. don't ever change.

[Notcrattey]

Go MP! most op prof:s

[Chrys]

Jedi consular imo

[Aiken]

Crats Rock©

[Xtremtech]

Jedi consular imo

Lol.... Sith Inquisitor surely?



X

[Gridpain]

I would really love to say MP, but sadly it's Crat all the way.

MP=redheaded stepchild
Crat=goldenhaired lovechild

Latest example: Crats getting new pet before rebalance, while they are probably the last prof who needs help right now in any way...

Yeah, right ... new crat pet is really a boost to 220 crats ...


The only reason why Crat > MP is that it will be easier to find teams ....

[Leduc69]

lol at the troll attempt from Grid ...

just +1 to what Ahndra-Corvid said

Crats have awesome control, debuffs, DD and team support auras ... Mp just can't stand the comparison.

if u finaly choose to lvl up ure mp i hope u are nanomage

[-LL-]

... i think this thread is the forum evidence that MPs are awful. MPs suggesting people NOT TO ROLL their profession is simply sad....

I agree though.. roll crat you'll have way less frustration and you'll play a lot more this game with way better results.

[Gridpain]

lol at the troll attempt from Grid ...

"Idied" didnt ask what was the most OP prof between the 2.

" I want to solo (ai raids/inf/prisoners) PVP and do decent pvm dmg "

I m sorry, but both Crats and MPs satisfy this request.

I know MPs that used to solo ground.
Soloing Inf is kinda generic.. not sure what he wants to solo there... some are soloable, more are soloable by crats
Soloing Prisoners ? I m pretty sure even MPs can
PvPing ? sure, MP are not the very best proffs... but they are not the worst either ... and are crats better than MP in PvP depends a lot on who you are fighting.
Do decent pvm dmg ? MPs that swap their shield for something else and who actually nukes do really decent DD.

so ...

All in all, the REAL drawback of MP vs Crats is that everyone and their mother want a crat in team, and a lot of people dont want a MP in team ... why ? because they dont know what a MP can bring to team and base their opinions on the number of whines on forum !

[Flynicist]

Go Crat, great pvp and pvm tool, and at least they get updates.

[Esssch]

PvPing ? sure, MP are not the very best proffs... but they are not the worst either ...

You just lost all credibility.




Not that you had any at this point. But if you did, the rest would've been lost right there.

[Towerblock]

The arguable upside: If you have no personal sense of shame, go crat. Even if you are the worst crat in the entire world, you can still upload your 3% baton and reap thirty times the benefits and teaming viability - all the while you can /follow to your hearts content.

No one will care anyway.

[Kuegen]

... i think this thread is the forum evidence that MPs are awful. MPs suggesting people NOT TO ROLL their profession is simply sad....

I agree though.. roll crat you'll have way less frustration and you'll play a lot more this game with way better results.

srsly. wtb MP love

[Gridpain]

You just lost all credibility.
Not that you had any at this point. But if you did, the rest would've been lost right there.

You may want to talk to some (few) MPs that actually PvP instead of whining on forum, contributing to the "bad image" of MPs.

[-LL-]

Gridpain? No. You know what? I like to pvp on my MP when account is active and do you know what is that probably makes a MP good in duels? (because that's what I like to do, BS isn't much rewarding)

NSD surprise. LOL. Noticed no one hardly pvps against a MP anymore that they have basically forgot what is NSD and they go panic mode in the first duel you make. So yes, I can say my duel ratio is about 0.95:1 (we are talking of 400ish duels total, all done at 220 mostly) but that's because first duel is won (expecially against NSD-weak profs) and usually when people realize what they just have to do is always a loss for the MP. You know, once you get the tactic against a MP there isn't ANYTHING a MP can do to win the duel, it's not a matter of how good the MP is. This goes true with every prof that is pvp geared. Probably the exception to this is a duel against another similar geared MP, which really comes down to skill and there is probably not a 100% success tactic.

This is true with bow, this is true with SoZ (except that with SOZ sometimes there isn't a way to win and there's not a way to lose so duel goes for 10mins+ without interesting events)

BS? Sure, I can play there. Killing greens and often pvm ppl is doable... is that PVP? Getting solo score isn't much of a trouble in BS with bow setup, but that's not really PVP is it? Getting solo score from a 1hb/1he enfo just because we were a zerg is rewarding a bit but that's not pvp.

Towerwars? Nothing to shine here aswell, hope you don't get called since you are spamming NeNSD against docs and such.. but u usually get called that why you wear a SoZ, but nothing good there, a good zerg will always bring you down anyway.. and if there is not the omni zerg, then your presence as MP is not essential to win the towerfield anyway.

PVM? Boom. I agree that MPs are VERY good DDers. I never slacked playing my mp. But AO people seems like they like big things.. I sometimes wonder if we hadn't better chances to get team if FC gave us a OP pet and removed the nukes, keeping our DD the same but adding to the "WTF MPs got OP pets let's get them in team" -thing...