RP Points system v2.38589 (:p)

[Xaun]

Bumpity bump bump.

[Ferlorn]

Badabimp

[Stillian]

There's enough points flying around the game. RP is it's own reward, and it has a powerful effect on the storyline as it is.

Knowing that the people next to me where there for fun and not for points is something I treasure, just like I prefer coop/org Pande raids over bot raids, for the same reason.

[Skeletawe]

There's enough points flying around the game. RP is it's own reward, and it has a powerful effect on the storyline as it is.

Knowing that the people next to me where there for fun and not for points is something I treasure, just like I prefer coop/org Pande raids over bot raids, for the same reason.

I give that a thorough bumping!

I don't care if I get +5 points for talking to Zora, the most rewarding parts of roleplaying are a stimulating argument with someone, a nice polite chat about how their life is. Seeing how much people have worked on their characters backstories and bios.

I say roleplay should never have a quantitative measurement attached to it. It should flow, and not have a set pattern, after all.

- Kris!

[Ninjaloot]

if i had 4 hands i would give this idea 4 thumbs down.

[Ferlorn]

I give that a thorough bumping!

I don't care if I get +5 points for talking to Zora, the most rewarding parts of roleplaying are a stimulating argument with someone, a nice polite chat about how their life is. Seeing how much people have worked on their characters backstories and bios.

I say roleplay should never have a quantitative measurement attached to it. It should flow, and not have a set pattern, after all.

- Kris!

Just that it isnt meant that way at all. If it was, it would be quite crappy. Some forced incentive on actual roleplaying, like points, would be utter crap. As a tabletop gm i never hand out xp for playing your character etc.

The issue at hand, would be to add a new research bar, like one for your side, with some sort of objective, or three, that allows for a more vibrant progression of ingame story. To add some life like happenings on a wartorn planet, with skirmishes, and hatred and whatnot.

In essence a way for the sides to feel like sides again, more than knowing what goddamn raidbot to attend to.

[Dartoonyan]

First of all, i would like to say, good idea! I am a part role player that finds roleplaying rewarding when it comes to fun, but when i am trying to roleplay, and someone says "ahhh gratz, but i hav 2 go get sometin 2 eat, cya", it cramps my style, so to speak. What I am trying to get at is, this is an MMORPG, but roleplayers are a minority. If FC added a real reward to RPers, quite a lot of people would try it. Then, maybe some people would realize how fun it is, and it would spread like wildfire. And, i think the reward you get for RPing should help you RP even more, like a car, producing its own fuel. The RP point system would give average joe (clan/omni/neut) an even bigger chance to change the course of history on Rubi-Ka. So, roleplay should be encouraged, not ignored.

[Luiza]

RP tokens

[Ferlorn]

*looks frustrated*

Its the other way around.

See, if you add research to your side's RP objective, you see some changes and it would help create a vibrant Rubi-Ka.

[Tethien]

I find this thread utterly fascinating.

It tries to advertise an anti-RP-system in the name of roleplay.

Points to note:

I. this system would split up roleplay in two cathegories:

I-1. roleplay in front of an ARC.
This kind will (if the ARC is in a good mood, your personal friend, a guildmate or perhaps also if your roleplay matches what the ARC right now decides to be the storyline) be recognized and rewarded.

I-2. roleplay anywhere else but in front of an ARC.
This kind of roleplay will be declared to be worthless.

I personally dare to say, while i do roleplay, i wouldn't want to call an ARC for every sentence of roleplay i do. Thus i personally would mostly if not exclusively do "worthless" roleplay. I've been into RP since several years, so perhaps i can handle. But people who are new to it will consider RP to be ARC-based-only.

Thus actual RP is reduced, not increased with this concept.


II. This system, despite Xaun feverishly denying the statement, would turn RP into some kind of grind. Again note:

II-1. Never underestimate the e-Peen factor. There will be people, who up to now were purely in the grinder-powergamer-faction who would just see a new value to rise and would invest time to rise it. And if it was just show his buddy another stat where he's "superior".

This of course would result in more people trying to catch the attionion of ARCs, which again would take up a lot of their time which they otherwhise could spend for "real" RP. Additionally, this could very well lead to frustration with the ARCs in limited time, leading the whole system to fail.

II-2. Even in the roughest overview, there are people of three interest groups competing with each other. If one side for whichever reason, despite perhaps doing as much RP as the other side, doesn't involve ARCs enough, they will at some time, in the proposed system, "loose out".

Thus people on both sides will feel themselves forced to rack up those RP-points, just to be able to compete. Now please explain to me how this will be no grind?


III. Sensibility.

From what i understand, these points can be earned from any kind of roleplay? So if i walk around in Ruse of Taren all day long, playing to be a little boyscout trying to sell cookies (of course, all day long a friend who's an ARC and actually is idle 99% of the time will faithfully follow me to "make sure that everything is correct". ) and then at the end of the day get a huge load of RP-points, please explain to me how this in the future will affect my faction?

There is no logic in it, but i for sure could dedicate those RP-points any way i want, it would be just an ammount of points, it's not written on them, what i would have gained them for.

But please don't tell me those points would not be "justified". If the system exists, those points may very well have their sense. After all, i might also try to initiate a global boyscout organisation and will need the RP-points to set it up properly?


IV. Accountability

On the next stage, my ARC-friend "saw" me doing it all day long, although he actually was idle. The next days he doesn't watch me any more, he simply grants me the points for i tell him that i did it again.?

Do you want to implement a massive controling system? One ARC has to control another on a daily basis? Then ARCs won't be available for RP any more, they will be busy checking each other.

The whole system would be based on pure visibility of your RP and on how good your connections to an ARC are. Do you really think this would be a good idea?



I am sorry, but i see those problems, no solution for them and also no other benefit of the proposed system. Thus i dare to conclude this posting with the most true sentence i found in the whole thread:

Roleplaying is it's own reward.

[Xaun]

<snip>

I LOL'd, I swear if some people could read before jumping to conclusions I would be amazed..

lets review some details here:

RK missions - Token
SL missions - no token
LE missions - token

Now.. anyone who feels that RP would be threatened by this needs to get a reality check. You run around all day long in a grind. Some of you RP when ya want.. No one forces you to do it and personal RP would not be deminshed in anyway by what is being proposed here. Least of all not made worthless.

What was really proposed? An ability to have "IN GAME FEEDBACK" to the "STORY LINE ARKS" by devoting some or all of your experience points or trading in of tokens to drive/push a "STORY ARC".


Hell an amendment to the idea could be that it takes 0 tokens or anything of that type. It just takes you selecting from a list which plot you would like to see happen much like research. And regardless of wether you sit in the cup allll day long chatting or are out there doing something, at the end of the day there are 5k players who left a check mark in the same option adding .005 more points to that STORY ARCs progress as what they were trying to accomplish all day long wether talking, twinking, pvping, tower bashing, pvm'ing etc...

Its someone's job at Funcom to decide what next nefarious plot each side will come up with. Where to take the story and along with every other thing the players in the game want.. every little change or addition to the storyline runs the risk of upsetting xyz groups of people. So instead of making the storyline as rich and in-depth as possible... alot of plots are rather shallow, lack any true impact and or go unfinished due to changes in the Storyline ARK team. This causes Chaos because the new members of the ARK team have to figure out who/what/when/where/why of what is going on.. then try to conclude it some how.

Now lets imagine for a second that there is a database that has each side pushing one goal higher than the others in a list based on what players contribute during their "grind". Any ARK current or future would be able to see what plots people are most interested in seeing happen. Would have player based feedback on a large enough scale to make a large group of the player base happy with storyline changes, etc. In the end this would result in a boom of RP because guess what? There are actual EVENTS WITH ARKS (NO TOKENS HERE) based on what your faction has been trying to achieve.. which would spawn all sorts of "little personal RP buzz" which would in turn draw more people into it. Additionally, RPers would want to do that "little pushing" of plots with their friends in "small personal RP" to get them to agree with why you are pushing an agenda.

[Werevixen]

Use the points for unique outfits, sided outfits... As if you're seeing a bunch of people dressed as Unicorns storm some place.

[Adamentiumm]

Xaun you do realize that you're actually taking other people's OPINIONS that you ASKED for by posting on a public FORUM for FEEDBACK. It would be the same thing if I did this:

Do you like Dream Theater?
No.
Worthless, you're wrong, best band.

You can't say "You people who think this need a reality check." Instead you say, "Well, I personally believe that" or a simple "Just a quick refute to that statement" you know? Just because someone doesn't have the same mind set as you, does NOT make them wrong.

[Ferlorn]

She is infact telling them to read through the entire thread, because, lately, it seems that they stop reading halfway through.

It is infact an AUTOMATED SYSTEM, like research, to allow the entire side to work through side specific goals like some neuts might like a freeing of borealis.

Noone really wants points for RP, so powergamers could not have another 'grind'. Atleast not in this thread.

SO; Automated system (less wandering about to check up on rp for arks)...

No, nvm, if you really want to know what this thread is about, read it

[Adamentiumm]

I've read it, don't like the idea.

[Ferlorn]

Yes, i know that, and i totally accept that we have differing views on many things.

And, honestly, that is hardly the issue. The issue is that all new input is that original idea was poor, something we all agree in, atleast somewhat. And its annoying, when the thread as whole tries to promote a fairly different aspect of RP.

[Tethien]

Now, thanks for giving me so much credit to reduce my complete posting to a <snip> and calling for a reality check.

Although i now even more than before writing my answer feel that you yourself are a waste of my time, i dare to comment on what you yourself might have missed. I admit that probably, based on what i saw of you up to now, will <snip> it away without really reading it, but i still decided to give it a try.


I. on the devaluation of roleplay.

You write:

Now.. anyone who feels that RP would be threatened by this needs to get a reality check. You run around all day long in a grind. Some of you RP when ya want.. No one forces you to do it and personal RP would not be deminshed in anyway by what is being proposed here. Least of all not made worthless.

Here i dare to say, you failed your reading roll yourself. I know that for me myself, the value of RP won't be diminuished and that's exactly what i have written. What i stated is "But people who are new to it will consider RP to be ARC-based-only." I wish you good success in finding out the difference. Anyways, interestingly enough, while you claim that what i write is not true, the next point will show that you are actually even proving more what i said than what i myself wrote.


II. Turning RP into a grind.

You contradict yourself a lot here. One page earlier you still claimed that it would be RP and not a grind of any way.

Nya, again you look at it as a grind.. No offense.. but I just don't see the grind in it anywhere! As this is an idea being formulated and everything in it thus far a suggestion.. Only one of the "maybe XYZ" could work after posts even hinted at making it XP based.. I will relay yet another for instance..

Now suddenly i have to read read:

<snip> [Har, i start to like this <snip>, it's so upnosed, wonderful... ]

What was really proposed? An ability to have "IN GAME FEEDBACK" to the "STORY LINE ARKS" by devoting some or all of your experience points or trading in of tokens to drive/push a "STORY ARC".

Now first of all, please tell me which of the two statements of yours is what you really suggest? There are more contraditcions within your postings throughout this thread, but this one of the most obvious ones.

Now, i assume that your latest statement is what you really support. Then i have to ask you, if gathering XP to control a storyline is not grind then what do you consider to be a grind?

Truth is, this it the absolute call to make it into a grind. If you interpret it in any other way, please answer in detail. And btw, a <snip> is not equal to "in detail".

And even if you now fall back to what you wrote, not that long ago, where ARKs would be the ones rewarding your roleplay, it would no longer be RP for the sake of RP but rather for the points granted and thus a grind.

Also please note, this proposal you just made here would give all RP-decissions into the hands of those who would spend all their time in the grind and not a single second in RP. You probably have not noticed yet, but in AO you don't gain any token or XP for roleplaying. (Unless perhaps if you are good friends to an ARK and he grants you some for it. )

Anyways, as mentioned in point one, i have to thank you for this statement. You not only directly contradict your previous statement here (which is no surprise, else you would have had to consider what i wroten, instead of <snip>ing it ) but you also prove way better than i could that your system would be cutting RP down.
(With the exception of course, if your complete RP is "i am a thug and my destination in life is to kill things". In this case, this system of course would support your, uh, "roleplay". )


III. This point was "Sensibility". See Point II now. If you still don't understand, i rest my case.


IV. Was Accountability

Here i quote out of a posting on page 3 wich i, at least according to your claims, have not read. (It's a real miracle how i could know about that posting, if i have not read it. But, hey, the world is full of miracles, after all. Like the miracle that in the unlikely case that i am commenting on a thread without fully reading it first, i also say that. )

An ARK can push the little AOE RP Token Give button and everyone in the vicinity of the event could get it..

Now, on the same account as you claim that i have not read the thread, i dare to conclude that you yourself do not even know what you have written just one page before.

If this statement, that an ARK has to push the button does not mean that it's all in ARK-control and that "good friends" or whatever are very likely to gain an advantage out of this system, you apparently have no idea how things are run in this very much real world. As soon as somebody has to push a button, he will way more likely push it for somebody he knows or even considers a friend than for anybody else, who might actually work (be it grind or RP) much harder for the goal but is unknown to the ARK.

The only credit i take as positive on your last posting is your comment that this would very much assist as a tracking tool for ARKs to get "lost" storylines under control again. I don't doubt that slightest that this is happening on a regular basis. Though, i also dare to say, there are some very nice freeware project tracking tools on the web, they are not so hard to use and would be more than sufficient to also cover this issue. (Without FC having to invest a lot of time to install a complicated system. Time saved here can be used elsewhere, after all. )

All they would require would be to set up a tiny DB on any webserver and have the ARKs dowload an appropriate tool. You don't need to hack this all into the game itself if you only want to follow this purpose. Everything else of your suggestion i covered above and still think it makes little sense. (Note: i write "i think". It's still my oppinion. You are allowed to have an oppinion of your own. I am not forbidding you to have your oppinion. Also note, there is a word for people who try to forbid other people to disagree with their oppinion and it's not a nice one... )

I am waiting for your <snip> with again completely ignoring what i say since it's not your oppinion. Also feel free to again completely contradict your previous postings, it amuses me a lot.

And changing the poster i comment to:

She is infact telling them to read through the entire thread, because, lately, it seems that they stop reading halfway through.

It is infact an AUTOMATED SYSTEM, like research, to allow the entire side to work through side specific goals like some neuts might like a freeing of borealis.

Noone really wants points for RP, so powergamers could not have another 'grind'. Atleast not in this thread.

SO; Automated system (less wandering about to check up on rp for arks)...

No, nvm, if you really want to know what this thread is about, read it

Please explain to me, how this system would be automated? I right now see the two contradicting designs:

1. An ARK can push the little AOE RP Token Give button and everyone in the vicinity of the event could get it.. (Directly quoted from one of the last postings about the actual system before i posted. )

As long as the ARK is still a human, i can't consider this to be automated.


2. An ability to have "IN GAME FEEDBACK" to the "STORY LINE ARKS" by devoting some or all of your experience points or trading in of tokens to drive/push a "STORY ARC".

This actually would be automated, yes. But would it really be good for RP? I dare to say: no. And i see no compromise between the two of them. If there is one, feel free to explain.

So, i still wait to be corrected and until then dare to say, the tracking functionality, which actually only was mentioned now after my posting might make sense but would be easier to set up than this proposed system. The rest of the concept i still consider contraproductive.

And also, for those who don't understand it: It is my oppinion. I don't claim anybodys oppinion to be worthless or foolish. (Unlike some people do with my oppinion. )

I laid explained how i see this suggestions, pointed out some flaws and dare to say that within my point of view, which i won't force everybody to have, i consider this concept to be faulty. The real challenge i set up here for some people is to try the same: accept that not everybody has to agree upon your oppinion and perhaps also consider their doubts on "genuine" concepts for a moment if they point out facts.

[Nanofat]

The game should include the ability to spend money on items which have tangible RP value.
RP is in itself its own reward; but supportive tools so people can assume the roles of "Dungeon Master" in their own enviroments would probably benefit the movement.

Keys to empty dungeons.
1,2,3 level dungeons in the usual RK and SL styles of Cave/Dungeon/Warehouse/Lab you know the kinds.
The key itself can be "bound" to a door; which means the RP masta can make quest locations.
"Master Key" holder wont be agged by mobs so dungeon masters can run around and do their thing; Rclicking a key also toggles invisibility inside the dungeon.

Summonable mobs.
NO XP/Cred dropping mobs with RP themes from Omni/Clan
Summonable bosses - non-agging bosses who will talk with their owner and will accept items/creds in trade which can then be looted by whomever kills him.
Several Unique names (for persistant quests) along with some random ones for little bosses.
Dungeon decorations/Mines available.

Quest Items.
A bunch of useless quest items with verious art/names who's unique ID can be bound to NPC/Boss interactions.

Outdoor RP
RP "Locations" like tower zones which can be "captured" by a RPer for 48 hrs.
In these locations similar mob/bosses can be spawned but the "Dungeon Master" is the only one who is able to dish-out a NCU program which enables access to the area while it is owned by them. Anyone else just gets warped-out.

NPCs.
who will ramble a series of RP-cliche quest sentences and accept items in trade for items can also be spawned.
(although this can often be a player in role)

None of this stuff can be considered "phatz" because all creds/items involved are transfered between players.
Infact its a money sink because all these bosses/dungeons/items will cost creds.
SL, AI and LE - specific objects for quests can be purchased in SL locations; made/traded for from AI mob drops; and purchased with VP.

Like ARKS, players will be able to create/run their own quests and series of quests and actually reward eachother with ingame items.

I'd run quests for lowbies myself; making "Credz plax" froobs jump through my hoops before rewarding them for their efforts

[Ferlorn]

bump

[meatybtz]

essentially you are asking for what SWG has. The abillity for players to make RP content, summonable items, mobs, etc.

It would be of great benefit to AO to do it.