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Thread: Yes, again, decrease spawn timer in Pande

  1. #1

    Yes, again, decrease spawn timer in Pande

    Ok, its been said many times before. I'll say it again:

    please decrease the spawn timer on mobs in Pande.

    The recent SK bonuses for people in Inferno missions is -great-. I hated the grind. I had a doctor at 218 for almost 9 months because it just wasn't worth it to grind. I almost completely solo farmed 218-219 on bosses. I did 219-220 on the Inferno quests. I had a high level shade during this time and had almost decided it wasn't worth 220 even with the Inferno quests. Then the Inferno SK reward happened and he should be 220 quite soon. I love it.

    BUT.

    You've got some very specifically end-game content in Pande. Content that is key to many peoples' toons. And the only thing that made it feasible to get your Pande content was the fact that it took people a long time to get to the levels where they can raid effectively there.

    That pressure regulator has been absolutely demolished. Its just plain gone.

    The pain isn't being really felt yet (well, imo it IS starting to a bit in the form of people without a clue about Pande showing up in raids at a much higher rate), but it will be soon. You know most of your high level players require a cooperative effort to obtain the items. Whether it is in the form of multi-org points systems (like on RK2, only place I can speak 1st hand about Pande) or in the form of points or other reward systems that individual orgs implement to manage the loot, at SOME point every system will feel the pain that is caused by a doubling or trebling of the number of people who need the items and are high enough to participate.

    You relieved a little of that pressure by making Beast stars into quest loot. You added a little more pressure when you made the Rebuilt Perennium weapons require Beast weapons. You MASSIVELY increased the overall pressure with the SK rewards.

    Increase the difficulty in Pande if you want, whatever makes this seem justifiable to you. But if you don't address the problem, you're just fixing 1 grind and allowing that "fix" to create a different grind. One that is at -least- as nasty as the old one. It shouldn't take people -years- to win BoC, it shouldn't be so hard that MANY people give up on it.

    ...

    While I think the best answer is instancing Pande, I admit, I don't think you have the resources to do this based on the past. So I'm not proposing that.

    But, if Funcom really wants to keep this from becoming a game where only the "elite" can get the top twinking items (from everything I've read in the various leaks, you haven't added any comparable items in LE), you need to relieve the pressure somehow.

    The only 2 feasible mechanisms are:

    1) to lower the time it takes between the Pande mobs for spawning. This will have the effect of increasing the overall drops on -all- items.

    or

    2) make the various Beast armors a 100% drop, which will fix the biggest problem (Burden of Competence) but won't touch the other massive timesinks (Gyro, Mystery, Calculator, Red Belt etc).

    I don't think 2 is a good answer, and I think it probably would require more development on your part. But surely the mob timers are simple enough to change? AO history has shown your ability to modify such timers (Tarasque for instance).

    I'll suggest the new timers below, but I'm not stuck on these numbers. I just want to see the issue addressed.

    Beast: every 10 hours. Not quite 1/2 of what it is now, not 9 hours (which could conflict with Tarasque), but close. Alternately, every 8 hours (meshing well with APF 7, Tara 9). Either would give alot of options for scheduling.

    Zods/TNH: every 4 hours. Again not quite 1/2 of what it is now. Enough time between to get some stuff done.


    PS. How about this one? Someone suggested this to me, I like it, I doubt it will happen ... have all 3 zods that -may- spawn at each point pop every round. Harder encounters, 100% chance that the Zod a person needs are up. But increase the spawn time to 8 hours instead of 6, and make the Beast an 8 hour timer.
    Theonara: "...but if I weren't married, some days I'd offer to kiss you. You just make too much sense. "
    Maeventura: "Sigh, once again I can but only bow for hyde's wisdom."

    ...."Social" keys, lightbars, wen-wens......Better tabbing!

    ... First Troxdoc with QL300 symbs (AO 17.0 pre-Albtraum guide) ... as well as first with 12 of 13 Alpha symbs.
    ... First TL1 Clanner with Omni-Armed Forces armor (pics) (pointless yet hawt)


    <original UI hacker ... when not actively playing AO ... email = 'hyde [at] athenpaladins • org'>

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctorhyde View Post
    But, if Funcom really wants to keep this from becoming a game where only the "elite" can get the top twinking items
    You make some good points, except for this one. There's a reason those top items are top items... Does FC want this to become a game where only the eilte get the best gear? Well, what's the point of being elite if you have nothing to show for it...

    Does FC want this to become a game where every nub and his little 12 year old brother runs around in BoC? No. I'm for making a slight decrease in the spawntimers but not so huge everyone spends a few days there and gets all their phatz. Things like this are SUPPOSED to take time.

    And no I don't have a BoC. Or the red belt I need from pande.
    I made a reference to a fictional extra-terrestrial hive-mind race of beings collectively called Grthulox, and you need an indication that I'm not being completely serious?

    [Infferno]: btw u are girl in rl or something ? To [Infferno]: nope To [Infferno]: 21 yo m [Infferno]: oki :> To [Infferno]: why? To [Infferno]: you wants cyb0rz? [Infferno]: stfu lol

    Get to know the real Healyhatman at Healy's MySpace! Leave a comment!
    See the Healy the Atheist at The Enlightenment of the Healy - my Atheist Blog.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Healyhatman View Post
    You make some good points, except for this one. There's a reason those top items are top items... Does FC want this to become a game where only the eilte get the best gear? Well, what's the point of being elite if you have nothing to show for it...
    Getting your loot by showing up to a zerg bot 1-3 times a day for 6 months is not 'elite'. If your argument were for sector 42 items, it would hold water, but pand hasn't been 'elite' in a very, very long time.

    Does FC want this to become a game where every nub and his little 12 year old brother runs around in BoC? No. I'm for making a slight decrease in the spawntimers but not so huge everyone spends a few days there and gets all their phatz. Things like this are SUPPOSED to take time.
    i hardly think less than doubling the spawn rates would do that. Besides FC has balked at all the legitimate suggestions that would actually make doing said content an 'elite' feat once again. This suggestion is only here because FC refuses to instance the zone or perform any sort of crowd limiting.
    teh fool :: Raynefists :: playing since beta 3 (sort of)

  4. #4
    They didn't REFUSE to instance the zone, they CAN'T. The server load as they explained would be too huge. However you're a bit right about the zergbots... But instead of making it too easy for things like BOC how about they actually increase the droprate as well? Price on boc would come down pretty fast if a BoC always dropped, and if TnH didn't make a habit of dropping zero belts, that kind of thing.

    And the sector42 loot is all well and good, except they need to put something in there that let's those of us elite enough to go there show off.... An extra IPR point gives no bragging rights, the wen wen if it looks like a normal wen wen gives none either.... And have you SEEN the wenwen that us poor support professions get? It's pathetic....
    I made a reference to a fictional extra-terrestrial hive-mind race of beings collectively called Grthulox, and you need an indication that I'm not being completely serious?

    [Infferno]: btw u are girl in rl or something ? To [Infferno]: nope To [Infferno]: 21 yo m [Infferno]: oki :> To [Infferno]: why? To [Infferno]: you wants cyb0rz? [Infferno]: stfu lol

    Get to know the real Healyhatman at Healy's MySpace! Leave a comment!
    See the Healy the Atheist at The Enlightenment of the Healy - my Atheist Blog.

  5. #5
    The point Healy is that there shouldn't BE "eliteness" through items. It should be through playstyle and game knowledge.

    Funcom has said they want that to be the case in the past, but right now they're only increased the need to zerg and camp.

    The player who can't heal for crap isn't gonna heal any better with a BoC. But no one, not the good player nor the bad player, should have limitations on their abilities because of insane demand for items.

    And by the way, the "zerg" factor will be WORSE if the spawn times are not decreased. Far more people at every single raid. Decreasing the spawn timer, thereby increasing the amount of loot distributed, keeps the number of raiders down per raid.

    We're already starting to regularly see 100+ people in Zods (not Beast, which I've seen 140+ at lately) at prime time. Its rather insane. And watching the vast number of 220 dings lately is just screaming "its gonna get worse".
    Theonara: "...but if I weren't married, some days I'd offer to kiss you. You just make too much sense. "
    Maeventura: "Sigh, once again I can but only bow for hyde's wisdom."

    ...."Social" keys, lightbars, wen-wens......Better tabbing!

    ... First Troxdoc with QL300 symbs (AO 17.0 pre-Albtraum guide) ... as well as first with 12 of 13 Alpha symbs.
    ... First TL1 Clanner with Omni-Armed Forces armor (pics) (pointless yet hawt)


    <original UI hacker ... when not actively playing AO ... email = 'hyde [at] athenpaladins • org'>

  6. #6
    Do something about this issue FC or you wil see a vast amount of people leave your game...forever...

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Pumpkin View Post
    Do something about this issue FC or you wil see a vast amount of people leave your game...forever...
    They've stayed in the game so far why would they up and leave now?
    I made a reference to a fictional extra-terrestrial hive-mind race of beings collectively called Grthulox, and you need an indication that I'm not being completely serious?

    [Infferno]: btw u are girl in rl or something ? To [Infferno]: nope To [Infferno]: 21 yo m [Infferno]: oki :> To [Infferno]: why? To [Infferno]: you wants cyb0rz? [Infferno]: stfu lol

    Get to know the real Healyhatman at Healy's MySpace! Leave a comment!
    See the Healy the Atheist at The Enlightenment of the Healy - my Atheist Blog.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Healyhatman View Post
    They've stayed in the game so far why would they up and leave now?
    heh...i dont know just what i am feeling at the moment

  9. #9
    I wonder if this will even be needed. I thought I read someplace that personal research provided stat boosts. If that's the case and those boosts are significant enough.. Pande gear may very well not be needed to get into top symbs. I mean if you can get a 30-40 point stat boost from personal research you wouldn't even need a BoC. Going to raids for 6 months (refering to RK2) for a stat buffing item is probably something many people wouldn't bother with if an alternative (personal research benefits) is available. That in itself will probably reduce the number of people you see in pande doing the grind. I know I wouldn't bother with beast or TNH raids if not for stat boosting items. There are a few items I have obtained from Zods that are nice.. and a couple more I'd like to get but none of those items are worth enduring the noobiness that I see when I attend those raids. In other words "my personal peace of mind" > -%Add Nano Cost ncu (or whatever) though I haven't gotten to that point when it comes to a BoC (yet).
    You can find me at:
    Battlenet @ Marilata#1680
    Steam @ http://steamcommunity.com/id/marilata

  10. #10
    Bump for spawn times decrease.
    Odinochka 220/30/70 Sol Veteran of Punk
    Linadoc 220/29/70 Doc Advisor of Punk

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Ameliaa View Post
    I wonder if this will even be needed. I thought I read someplace that personal research provided stat boosts. If that's the case and those boosts are significant enough.. Pande gear may very well not be needed to get into top symbs. I mean if you can get a 30-40 point stat boost from personal research you wouldn't even need a BoC. Going to raids for 6 months (refering to RK2) for a stat buffing item is probably something many people wouldn't bother with if an alternative (personal research benefits) is available. That in itself will probably reduce the number of people you see in pande doing the grind. I know I wouldn't bother with beast or TNH raids if not for stat boosting items. There are a few items I have obtained from Zods that are nice.. and a couple more I'd like to get but none of those items are worth enduring the noobiness that I see when I attend those raids. In other words "my personal peace of mind" > -%Add Nano Cost ncu (or whatever) though I haven't gotten to that point when it comes to a BoC (yet).
    As far as I know, no profession/breed combination can currently get in full set of ql300 symbiants. If we are talking of the top end game, that would be the benchmark. Twink items will and should still be necessary. Twinking is a great part of this game, and I don't foresee any "perk" boost eliminating this need [though it would be nice to have the extra help, lol]

  12. #12
    i agree with hyde,i actualy had to lead 100+ zod raids,its just not normal,decrease the spawn timers or increase the droprates to reduce this prob :>

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Healyhatman View Post
    They didn't REFUSE to instance the zone, they CAN'T. The server load as they explained would be too huge. However you're a bit right about the zergbots... But instead of making it too easy for things like BOC how about they actually increase the droprate as well? Price on boc would come down pretty fast if a BoC always dropped, and if TnH didn't make a habit of dropping zero belts, that kind of thing.
    No, they refused to do it. They could reconfigure the zone so that it could be instantiated. There are plenty of mobs no one ever kills, and plenty of land no one goes to. Theres also a lot of area they could simply do away with. There's no reason for the buffing islands either, just make the portals last longer and the mobs around the portal mobs spawn less quickly. Sure, the current incarnation of pand may not be instantiable, but it doesn't mean they can't fix it so it is. Considering that theyve done end game instances before(smugglers, IS, etc) i really don't buy the server load crap. If they wanted to do it they could, they don't.

    And the sector42 loot is all well and good, except they need to put something in there that let's those of us elite enough to go there show off.... An extra IPR point gives no bragging rights, the wen wen if it looks like a normal wen wen gives none either.... And have you SEEN the wenwen that us poor support professions get? It's pathetic....
    i agree, although the actual loot in 42 isn't known yet. could be anything really. although knowing fc its just the stupid wen wens and the ipr thing
    teh fool :: Raynefists :: playing since beta 3 (sort of)

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Ameliaa View Post
    I wonder if this will even be needed. I thought I read someplace that personal research provided stat boosts. If that's the case and those
    I was hopeful of this too ... but not nearly so hopeful lately. I -hope- I'm wrong.

    I've seen the beta database ... won't say how or why ... as have many others. There do seem to be a few stat increases (won't say how or why : ) but nothing that replaces the buffs in the back slot or the various other Pande buffing items.

    I don't think a few points from LE will change things for a very simple reason ... right now even doubling the bonuses buffed by BoC will at most allow 1-2 more higher QL symbs on most toons. Therefore the various trox-support, soli-everything, opi-infantry/artillery combinations will still be clamoring for everything they can get to buff.

    The only people I know of that can get a fair amount of QL300 symbs (more than half) are opi-support and perhaps nanomage-control. Probably are more combos out there, but overall these aren't the people inflating Pande raids. And even they still don't get a full set on.

    The best symb I've been able to calc so far on Hyde is a QL290 right arm ... no other 290s, only 1 or 2 280s, the rest lower. And that required using a Mystery of Pisces and QL250 tower contracts. That means maxing Dimach, which is a TON of wasted IP unless you do weapon swapping in PvP. I'm not complaining (I knew going into it that he wouldn't get best symbs), just illustrating. Opi MAs with infantry symbs (far more common) will have the same issues. A few extra points, even the equivalent or =more= points than a BoC, won't remove the need for BoC for buffing. There would have to be the equivalent of the Secondary Genome buff or more to make BoC irrelevant to a large number of people.

    Now, could be that some other massive bonus like the AI org city bonuses haven't yet been seen ... that could change it. But perks/items from LE, unless expanded since the widespread DB leak a couple weeks ago, won't cut it.

    I have my BoC on Hyde ... don't need it on Goraud ... so this isn't a pressing issue for me right now. But I have many friends who are just now starting the Beast grind, and I have a 3rd toon that will be coming to life just about the time that the mass influx of people inflates the Beast grind in a few months. Trying to look ahead and hoping FC will to.
    Last edited by Doctorhyde; Dec 6th, 2006 at 17:56:13.
    Theonara: "...but if I weren't married, some days I'd offer to kiss you. You just make too much sense. "
    Maeventura: "Sigh, once again I can but only bow for hyde's wisdom."

    ...."Social" keys, lightbars, wen-wens......Better tabbing!

    ... First Troxdoc with QL300 symbs (AO 17.0 pre-Albtraum guide) ... as well as first with 12 of 13 Alpha symbs.
    ... First TL1 Clanner with Omni-Armed Forces armor (pics) (pointless yet hawt)


    <original UI hacker ... when not actively playing AO ... email = 'hyde [at] athenpaladins • org'>

  15. #15
    i have 14 beast kills(which =42 points),now on average a BoC costs 150 or more points,14 beast kills took me 3 weeks to get,now once i realised that il prolly have to spend the next 3-5 months farming a BoC,i converted them to zod points and settled with 270-280 symbs instead of 300.

    I can only imagine what the raid will be like in 2 or 3 months when we really start getting loads and loads of noobs(i dont think LE will kill pande loot,there are simply some very good buffing items there and non of the LE stuff i saw so far is going to match a BoC imo),i can see BoC going for 200+ points easy,with raids of 150 or more people...

    Then again i could be wrong and everything might work out great,a 150 people raid with no lag,60-100% BoC droprate,getting your stuff in a month(2 weeks of raiding from time to time) and be done with twinking in 2 months again once your perks are reseted then put back to normal use.Please dont burst my bubble...

  16. #16
    I got my star for tabbing beast, I won't bother going again.

    Yes, I'm trox support. Yes I could get better symbs in, but I'm self casting BI as it is, and nothing in the world can convince me that spending 4 nights a week every 3 weeks for over a year is worth +30 stats in a computer game.

    The problem is that if they do ease the Pande grind in one way or another, I can garauntee 30 page threads from people claiming "it's too easy now, I remember the old days when you cold only raid Pande while sitting naked at your PC with you d*** in a toaster and it took 27 hours 8 days a week."

    People will still farm their BoC as things are now, even if it takes them until the end of time, and their last conversation on this earth is "/tell Pande !points"

    Anyway, bump for some sort of solution.
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    Grumpy "Siorai" Oldgit - 220.25 Clan Atrox Doctor - Screenshot - Equip (old)

    First trox doc on RK1 using Blades of Boltar.

    My Spirit Shroud Hell - Over 1400 kills with no drop.
    ------------------------------------------------------------

  17. #17
    Figured out another way to solve it and kill raidbots meanwhile.
    Just cut adds spawn slightly if zone load is over 30ppl(2 guild coops movin on beast) that will cause any raidforce that exceeds 30 ppl wipe.
    Odinochka 220/30/70 Sol Veteran of Punk
    Linadoc 220/29/70 Doc Advisor of Punk

  18. #18
    Well, then you'd just end up with bots moving in three parts instead of one blob. Which in itself isn't such a bad idea anyway, really.

  19. #19
    I'd like to see spawn times halved or all loot has a 100% droprate, like APF items.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Siorai View Post
    I got my star for tabbing beast, I won't bother going again.

    Yes, I'm trox support. Yes I could get better symbs in, but I'm self casting BI as it is, and nothing in the world can convince me that spending 4 nights a week every 3 weeks for over a year is worth +30 stats in a computer game.

    The problem is that if they do ease the Pande grind in one way or another, I can garauntee 30 page threads from people claiming "it's too easy now, I remember the old days when you cold only raid Pande while sitting naked at your PC with you d*** in a toaster and it took 27 hours 8 days a week."

    People will still farm their BoC as things are now, even if it takes them until the end of time, and their last conversation on this earth is "/tell Pande !points"

    Anyway, bump for some sort of solution.
    ah but i will bother going to beast a few more times,since 1 beast=12 zod points and i only need my calc/gyro and then i can say:FU PANDE,A PLAGUE UPON THIS ZERG FORCE!1!!111o1noeneoeneeleven

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