Instanced raid zones in Pandemonium

[Avari]

With the growing high level player base the demand for high level content rises exponentially. This being both for existing items/raids and for new content all around.

My suggestion is to make the Pandemonium zone instanced - like the model used in WoW for example. Let it be a 24-36 person zone (ie. 4-6 teams). This would kill the problems the playerbase is facing and would again require the players to put in some effort to reach their goals insetad of zerging.

The following could be an idea:

Since the initial portal mob Zodiac is already in place and the land between it and the actual first "island" of Pandemonium is seperated, then it should be possible to entirely remove the islands to an instanced area - ie. you enter Pandemonium like usual through the Ergo-portal from Inferno, the garden statues, and the land with Zodiac is still there, but behind Zodiac there is nothing.

Then when a raid force assembles in garden one person gets a mission from a quest mob. There are two missions - a mission for the Zodiacs/TNH and a mission for The Beast. This person updates all other people in the raid force with this mission by teaming them.
Now the raid force moves out, kills Zodiac and the portal spawns, but only members of a raid force can use the portal.
If there is one raid force only they all click the portal and end up in the same instanced Pandemonium Zone. The mission will ensure that no one unwelcome will use the portal and take a "spot" in the zone.
If two raid forces are present they will end up in each their instanced zone like two teams using the same door to enter their mission on RK.

Now they all move onto Beast or Zodiacs wether it's one raid force or ten, and everyones happy. A timer ensures that no person at any time can enter the instanced Pandemonium zone before 18 hours has passed for a Beast raid, or 6 hours for a Zodiacs raid.

I'm perfectly aware that this eliminates the possibility of killing two zodiacs and TNH otw to Beast, but I see that as a minor loss for the bigger and better picture.

Notice I have used elements that are all coded in the game somehow and working. All the land needed for the instanced zones exist already, and the coding for portals (or doors if you like to call them that) already exist.

/Av'

PS: Please feel free to come with suggestions and I'll try update the original post.

[atlasdreamer]

beautifull Idea.......Just one suggestion that I would have, Make MP's usefull again in Pande :-) other than for anchors and recalls

[deniska]

I think that's like 4-th thread about "pande instancing" I bump
But still HUGE BUMP.
We need to spam the suggestion forum with "pande instancing" suggestions and hope FC listens FOR ONCE!

[Avari]

Looked over the existing ones and thought this specified it a bit more.

[Avari]

beautifull Idea.......Just one suggestion that I would have, Make MP's usefull again in Pande :-) other than for anchors and recalls

Seeing how pet users are forced to go through pandemonium raids without actually using their pets in fear of pulling adds (pet lag), then I totally understand this point. Other than a hard cap of 36 people @ raid, which would allow pet users to use their pets as long as they hold them under strict control, then I don't believe we will see more use of specific prof abilities other than healing/tanking/damage/calming specific.

It is an interesting idea though to use various professions abilities to ease the raids. Where as I don't think a raid should be dependant on one prof (as for example Beast and a trader to nano drain it which I believe is a must), then I do believe in the unique setup where the participation of different prof would ease the raid, so that if you don't have, let's say an engi to blind, then you will need more healing with you instead as mobs will do more damage (just an idea/example).

[deniska]

You can't keep pets under control.
Walking with a pet is more like walking the street full with candy stores with a kid who loves candy. Can't really expian him why you can't go there

[Portulis]

20 person Pand raids involves minimal lag and pet owners do quite well in those circumstances. Its only in the huge zerg raids where pet classes have problems, and in those type raids pets are useless anyway.

[Avari]

You can't keep pets under control.
Walking with a pet is more like walking the street full with candy stores with a kid who loves candy. Can't really expian him why you can't go there

Easiest thing in the world to an experienced engi/mp (crat also kinda).

[deniska]

20 person Pand raids involves minimal lag and pet owners do quite well in those circumstances. Its only in the huge zerg raids where pet classes have problems, and in those type raids pets are useless anyway.

20 person raid is likely to wipe right after TNH if someone does 1 wrong step.
This is totaly not a problem for zerg raids, they just wipe 20 adds and move on

[Kinkstaah]

I think 24 is an optimal number (4 full teams)

Instancing is needed in AO, and that Zodiac spawn point is a great spot to do it. Flag people with a buff that you cant kill beast again for XYZ time in your NCU that you cant remove when it dies.

Easy.

The problem is creating a "raid group" or a group of teams to solve the getting into the wrong instance crap, especially when we're talking about numbers of 24, which is more than 1 team

[Avari]

I think 24 is an optimal number (4 full teams)

Number is always discussable - I reached the number 36 from the point opf view that the less people you can have in the raid the more does the average level of the raid group have to be close to 220 to succeed. The incentive for 36 people to be allowed to raid was that orgs can bring even their 205-215 players from early on. These can get used to the raid environment the first couple raids and then participate actively later on- if you are "only" 24 then the roles of the raid becomes less flexible - there's not room to bring too many new people 'cause everyone would have to be alert and do their best to have succes.

These are just observations - I'll change the number in my original post to reflect that other suggestions has been made.

The problem is creating a "raid group" or a group of teams to solve the getting into the wrong instance crap, especially when we're talking about numbers of 24, which is more than 1 team

I tried set up a model for how it might be done in my original suggestion using already existing game mechanics. If FC would be willing to make a new system I'd recommend the one used in WoW (for Onyxia raids I think) - never having played WoW myself though and only heard about it through friends maybe someone could clarify how it works?

[Kinkstaah]

Pretty simple.

You have team window, with a limit of 5 players.

You click a nice big button called "Convert to Raid" which makes you (or rather lets you invite more) a lovely 40 person "team" or rather up to 8 teams.

And just keep inviting. You can move people around in teams to set them up the way you want them to.

I said the number 24 instead of 20 because it should be a multiple of 6

[Kinkstaah]

Oh, and in a raid you dont get XP and you cant complete quests that are marked as well.. up to 5 persons max to complete.

If the instance has a maximum of 15 people nad you have 27 people in your raid, I believe the first 3 teams (of 5) get in, so Team1,2,3 get in, the rest cant enter.

I dont know, I havent tried that one for myself - Usually people know how many people are allowed for a specific instance

[Avari]

Pretty simple.

You have team window, with a limit of 5 players.

You click a nice big button called "Convert to Raid" which makes you (or rather lets you invite more) a lovely 40 person "team" or rather up to 8 teams.

And just keep inviting. You can move people around in teams to set them up the way you want them to.

I said the number 24 instead of 20 because it should be a multiple of 6

That was a fast reply - but it makes sense the system WoW uses - I've heard from others that the raid interface they have come up with is rather ingenius compared to the one AO is using - in other words, if it isn't copyrighted FC, then copy it... NOW

[Linell]

If more than 15 people want to enter same instance limited to 15 they just end up in another instance.

And I don't think we'll ever see that system implemented in AO since it involves considerable work for such an old game with player base of cca 15000 people.

[Linell]

That was a fast reply - but it makes sense the system WoW uses - I've heard from others that the raid interface they have come up with is rather ingenius compared to the one AO is using - in other words, if it isn't copyrighted FC, then copy it... NOW

Hm, nothing much innovative or revolutionary there, just a simple raid interface (not talking about player-made raid interfaces). The reason why it seems so great to us is because in AO there isn't any at all.

[Linell]

Oh, and in a raid you dont get XP and you cant complete quests that are marked as well.. up to 5 persons max to complete.

And just to correct Kinkstaah.. you can get XP in raids (our level 58 got it while killing Nef, for instance). And also you can complete many quests in raid - although, it would be fun to do Molten Core and similar quests with 5 people. ;>

[deniska]

That was a fast reply - but it makes sense the system WoW uses - I've heard from others that the raid interface they have come up with is rather ingenius compared to the one AO is using - in other words, if it isn't copyrighted FC, then copy it... NOW

AO using NO raid interface whatsoever

[Avari]

If more than 15 people want to enter same instance limited to 15 they just end up in another instance.

I don't understand the statement/question - are we talking AO or WoW now? And what type of instances are you refering to? Are you talking for example 15 people enter a shop and then then the 16th end up in a new GS (read: GS=Instance?)?

And I don't think we'll ever see that system implemented in AO since it involves considerable work for such an old game with player base of cca 15000 people

I would have written AO off a long time ago, but it seems that there are players out there who wanna sacrifice some game engine and graphics to play what I'd consider one of the better MMO's on the market (that's really not a discussion I wanna take in this thread so please refrain from trying to proove me wrong as you will, alas, not succeed in changing my mind anyway). Also I haven't seen FC write of this game yet, and thus I will keep up positive ideas, and possibly hope for a raid interface to be implemented. Also you will notice that the raid interface is not a nescesity in my original game suggestion which is based on already existing coding, but merely a biproduct of constructive posts in this thread.

[Avari]

AO using NO raid interface whatsoever

I consider Raidbots a raid interface - WoW hasn't got the same option to run bots so they had to have a raid interface build into the game.

That is what I've heard atleast - again I'm no expert on WoW so I might be wrong on the bot part, but I have a couple friends playing who's told bits and pieces.