Looking for clicksaver replacement

**Nakrima** · Mar 16th, 2010, 06:05:47

Even after I visited this thread (http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...d.php?t=556425) I still get 'failed to create local database.' When I click skip I get 'Couldn't open local database.' This could be a vista issue, but I'd really just like to replace it with a program that does the same thing. Any suggestions?

**Reetzor** · Mar 16th, 2010, 09:47:05

You could look up MishBuddy. I've never used it personally but some people seem to prefer it.

**erozc** · Mar 16th, 2010, 11:20:29

http://arpa3.net/ao/clicksaver.html works for me currently.

**Nakrima** · Mar 16th, 2010, 17:27:02

Originally Posted by eroz_c

http://arpa3.net/ao/clicksaver.html works for me currently.

Thanks, this worked.

@reetzor, I'll check out mishbuddy. Cheers!

**RedWatr** · Mar 16th, 2010, 19:17:40

Mish buddy seems to work well for me. I shoudl add that some people have mentioned they don't trust it, but I've found no reason to worry at all.

**Nakrima** · Mar 16th, 2010, 19:52:30

Originally Posted by RedWatr

Mish buddy seems to work well for me. I shoudl add that some people have mentioned they don't trust it, but I've found no reason to worry at all.

People used to say not to trust clicksaver too ^_^.

**shadowgod** · Mar 17th, 2010, 04:09:40

Originally Posted by Nakrima

People used to say not to trust clicksaver too ^_^.

they say not to trust the version of clicksaver that doesnt come with the source code.

**Tryqz** · Mar 17th, 2010, 13:39:03

Originally Posted by shadowgod

they say not to trust the version of clicksaver that doesnt come with the source code.

"They" would be smart to do so.

**Vhax** · Mar 17th, 2010, 14:24:08

Originally Posted by shadowgod

they say not to trust the version of clicksaver that doesnt come with the source code.

It's dodgy either way how he refuses to hand out the source despite the original author confirming CS was released under GPL.
It makes me wonder what he's hiding.
Especially considering most AO related apps are still alive due to the very fact they were open source.

**Khalem** · Mar 18th, 2010, 16:51:45

I would never trust the ClickSaver version from arpa3.net given that the source is not provided, even upon request which is in breach of the license ClickSaver was released under originally.

**Mireiawen** · Mar 20th, 2010, 11:25:43

Even having the source code doesn't mean you can trust the binary unless you read the code and compile it yourself... But not many are paranoid enough to do that I believe.

Anyway, as it is real easy to get Anarchy Online username and password as both are provided to client.exe on command line, thus readable by any program, I wouldn't trust stuff that you need to run while AO is open and can't see and compile yourself what it does.

As of arpa3 site... well, I just stopped using it long time ago for many reasons that annoyed me already...

Wonder how hard it would be to create ClickSaver from scratch... Biggest problem would likely be grabbing data from AO itself, there's already some source around for database extraction.

**Suicidal** · Mar 20th, 2010, 11:35:04

Originally Posted by Mireiawen

Wonder how hard it would be to create ClickSaver from scratch...

Not that hard for people who know thing or two about the way AO works, but without any such knowledge I wouldn't try it :P

**Vhax** · Mar 20th, 2010, 12:10:02

Originally Posted by Mireiawen

Wonder how hard it would be to create ClickSaver from scratch... Biggest problem would likely be grabbing data from AO itself, there's already some source around for database extraction.

The database extraction is the easy part though

CS hooks into AO which is not a trivial thing to do.
Luckily, you don't have to create it from scratch, source available at: http://www.ao-universe.com/main.php?...d&action=tools

**Mireiawen** · Mar 20th, 2010, 17:40:32

Originally Posted by Vhab

The database extraction is the easy part though

CS hooks into AO which is not a trivial thing to do.
Luckily, you don't have to create it from scratch, source available at: http://www.ao-universe.com/main.php?...d&action=tools

Last I checked, Clicksaver used some (now) proprietary code to hook to AO, and its something I don't entirely like... The old code might work tho, but it might as well be reason for some weird crashes like when running multiple clients while clicksaving.

**MartekO** · Mar 21st, 2010, 06:44:29

Well count me as one of those that prefers the apra3 clicksaver (Kimi's).

I like the enhancements he has put in the program (as compared to the "original" CS), and I don't have any more of a "trust" issue with it than I have with the many other programs I have on my PC that also do not come with "source".

And like someone else said, unless you download the source yourself and compile the program yourself, then you don't "really" know if the "binary" you downloaded matches what the source is - and unless you pour over that source you don't really know what it does anyways.

I also like the "rollability" section of Kimi's site, and use it quite often.

All that said, I will also agree with those that have issue with Kimi taking an open source program and forking it and then "closing" the source on his fork. I agree that is not a good practice. I don't consider it to be "dodgy" though (inferring "not trustable") - just at odds with "accepted practices" and also that open source "derivatives" should also stay open source. Hopefully some day he will make the source available.

However, in the meantime, I do think that Kimi's Clicksaver is "better" than the original, and will continue to use it.

JMO!

Martek

**techprince** · Mar 21st, 2010, 10:13:27

Mishbuddy

**Nakrima** · Mar 22nd, 2010, 01:07:31

Thanks everyone for the replies and input. Personally I'm not worried about my account info being compromised, as since we know who made CS and it's the only program I use (and many, many other people use it)... I don't believe I have a reason to worry.

Mishbuddy wasn't quite what I wanted and didn't work for me half the time - so CS it will be and stay.

Cheers

**alfora** · Mar 24th, 2010, 09:59:08

Originally Posted by MartekO

All that said, I will also agree with those that have issue with Kimi taking an open source program and forking it and then "closing" the source on his fork. I agree that is not a good practice. I don't consider it to be "dodgy" though (inferring "not trustable") - just at odds with "accepted practices" and also that open source "derivatives" should also stay open source. Hopefully some day he will make the source available.

Just to clarify "Open Source" in this case:

ClickSaver 2.3.4 is released under the GPL (GNU Public License)
it contains libraries that were released under different licenses, like AODB and AOHook under GPL, the BerkeleyDB under a BSD License, the madCodeHookLibL under a Freeware license, the PUL (pretty useless library) under BSD too, and zlib under license of its own.
all these licenses require you (the programmer) to do some things
most important, the final program must be provided under the GPL license
even more important, IF you got a program that was published under the GPL license you have the right to get the source code too

Unfortunately, you only find out that ClickSaver is a GPL program if you look closely at the files. You will find a gpl.txt file but there is no mention of it in the ReadMe.txt file or in the application itself. I must admit that I missed that too for a long time and I am a software developer myself and familiar with a lot of (open source) licenses and their implications.

Just to be perfectly clear: You don't have to "hope" that "some day he will make the source available". You have the right to get the source and he has the obligation to give you the source as soon as you got the program.

What everybody should do is to bug Kimi for the source code. Repeatedly.
Only the original copyright holder is legally authorised to take action to enforce the license.

Reference links:
Various Licenses and Comments about Them
Violations of the GNU Licenses

(One caveat: I don't know when exactly ClickSaver was released under the GPL. If there was a version under a different license then Kimi would have been able to base his version on that earlier program.)

**MartekO** · Mar 25th, 2010, 07:53:15

Originally Posted by alfora

You have the right to get the source and he has the obligation to give you the source as soon as you got the program.

What everybody should do is to bug Kimi for the source code. Repeatedly.

Feel free to start it off!

My point (just so it doesn't get lost) is that, whether or not some GPL is being violated - that has nothing to do with if the program is "not to be trusted" (as if it might do neferious things). Those are two different issues - but some folks tie them together into one bundle.

That's all I am saying.

I am just a [happy] user of that version of Clicksaver (and the Rollability database); and to be honest, I don't really have any desire to engage in some fight for the source (right or not).

But feel free to do so yourself.

**alfora** · Mar 25th, 2010, 11:14:02

Originally Posted by MartekO

My point (just so it doesn't get lost) is that, whether or not some GPL is being violated - that has nothing to do with if the program is "not to be trusted" (as if it might do neferious things). Those are two different issues - but some folks tie them together into one bundle.

I fully agree. Even if you have the source code of a program you would have to compile it yourself AND have the knowledge to search for "evil" code.

I only wanted to clarify the license issue and point out the difference between "hope for source code" and "have the right to get the source code".

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