Involving tradeskills in combat is almost always a bad idea.Originally Posted by McKnuckleSamwich
Involving tradeskills in combat is almost always a bad idea.
Now, one of the reasons we’ve spent the last month arguing about the debt ceiling is that half of the "teabag" Congress signed a vow to never raise taxes. Someone just handed them something and it wasn’t a gun, a crucifix or a fetus — so they signed it. Why? "Because we’re rugged individuals who love freedom. Now excuse us while we sign this document swearing to do as we’re told." --Bill Maher
These are some of the things I noted going through the doc.. these are all based on my PvM fixer who is 220/27/70. Forgive me if I am way off but this is all based on my time with my fixer.
* If separating out PvM snares and PvP snares is feasible, I think changing the duration on Luck's Improved Capricious Consequences in PvM would be nice as well. 10s with a 40s cooldown is not something I would even bother casting in PvM.
* It would be nice to see B&E as a Attack Skill check on some nanos. The fixer community seems to want to be more hackerish so here is the chance.
* Off point but for the B&E Idea: With the changes to NR and Fixers being so susceptible to nukes already, a nano reflect of sorts based on B&E, "Backtrace", could be nice.
* With the buffs to RE, can we expect to see a RE Xan weapon or something similar?
* The nano requirements on the Evade Buffs, specifically Escape Peril is very high. My fixer wouldn't be casting Escape Peril without CM and I believe I have a bit more nanoskills than some PvP fixers out there. Fixers are evaders so this should be easier to cast than most nanos I would think.
* Just noticed the requirements on SWSXI are lowered too so I suppose fixer's are looking at a mandatory full IPR to get their nano skills sorted out post balance? if so, going to wait to put on some of those alphas. Would be nice to hear if anyone has done the calculations to see if we will be able to self cast our nanos without gimping our damage/defense.
* Lowering the MM requirements on SWS is nice but they have not been adjusted accordingly on the short HoT Systolic Equalizer. Lowering them so much on SWSXI is pointless if we still need 1755 MM for our short hot.
* The new Bust/FA buffs are great. froob friendly and all.
* Init buffs are nice for team members, we don't have much trouble with inits.
About the changed nano requirements on Long hots and SWS (and GA for that matter).
Lowering the requirements on MM and rising them on TS/BM, which is more expensive than MM, is really confusing me.
An example:
Old reqs on Nano Cauterization
MM 574
TS 410
BM 410
Total cost with cost modifiers (MM=2.4, BM=3.2 TS=3.2)
4001,6
New reqs
MM 500
TS 500
BM 500
Total
4400
That is an increased IP-cost of 10%.
What is the point of that change?
Fixer nano skills has been broken since launch, but adding harm to injury just baffles me.
Not much action here, all other Fixers just as delusional as me?
Some brief thoughts, some related to the nano doc, some not:
SWS I-VII mods are severely outdated and has always been. requirements are also over the top when it comes to casting and equipping.
The new %hots requires you to have all HP buffs in game to heal more per second than the old ones, the requirements to use them also steals IP that you could have put in Body dev.
Evade debuffs: 10-5 seconds duration? And I don't see why the lower ones should have lower duration. The cooldown is also too long.
Refactor NCU Matrix, If we no longer are allowed to use Wake up call on our self, At least give us more than just 2 replacement nanos, cooldown is far too long also. Highest should have not more than 10 seconds, 15, 20, 25 for the rest (4 different ones seems reasonable in my mind).
Program override: It shouldn't remove the NCU buffs, make them hostile or something.
(and lol at the level 100 req, just too funny when you look at the casting reqs).
Experienced survivor: I still wonder why it has a level 100 req, the only explanation I've got so far is "Someone thought that fixers shouldn't have it before that.". (The increased duration is nice tho.)
In the nano doc dated aug 20 there was a "Fgrid other" nano (aka no team req) Why was that removed? There was also NCU buffs without team req.
I've posted my indepth concerns about previous documents before, but for accuracy's sake I'll take a look through this new one....
Then go dig up all my concerns from last time and repost them! :P
But yeah, will have a look and probably put something more constructive up here tommorow.
Edit: Ok its tommorow, and for fullness sake I will just go through all the stuff from before in regards to new changes
Snares and Roots
Looks good, my one complaint about the changes before were the high chance to break scores, these have been adjusted.
The nano cost increase isn't so big as to be untenable but I would ask you make sure you check the low end scaling with non expansion set ups just to make sure nano cost isn't going to be a limiting factor on actually casting them so much.
Debuff removals
Ok so costs been lowered a bit but my old concerns are still there.
Top one could still do with loosing around 100-150 MM on its reqs, unless you are seriously going to be looking at making it easier for us to get nano skills without being useless for anything but buffing and I'd also still argue for 10 seconds off at least the top one.
I still understand you don't want these spammed but they also need to be around enough for them to be useful, the still reasonably high nano cost will easily prevent the top one being spammed and the lower one will have two to three times the cooldown.
Team Debuff removals
As before looks fine, just make sure the npc spells that should be removed by these are actually removed by this, far too many npc snares and such are in totally random pools that this does nothing for.
Root/Snare reductions
Ok so my old complaint would still be valid but with the reduced cast time and easier use of them not being seperated into different nano's makes it much nicer to the point where yeah, ok I like it that way.
Still going to miss our periodic automatic removal from firewalled sync compressor, would love to see that make a return in a new line or such, even if it is toned down from its 10s rate, the sheer joy of occasionally breaking a root/snare without having to do something as your running a way is indescribable!
Short hots
Nothings changed? Oh wait, you've doubled the costs :O so my old complaint still stands but with the added plea of please lower the nano costs! maybe not back to how they were but no higher than 1.3k nano for the highest ones, your already draining my nano pool everywhere else, these essential but constantly needing recast nanos shouldn't empty us out alone... also mm could do with looking at again
Old comment:
Please please please please please lower the delays on these, these are emergency hots used before battle or just when needed, these are not something fixers can or will constantly have on. But when they are on we need to have the effects.
Drop em to 2 second delays, drop the healing from 1090 to about 250 max and they will be what we've asked/need for them.
Numbers would go from top 250, 150, 100, 80, 60, 50, 40, 30, 25, 20, 15, 10.
These would gave similar hps as the current number but slightly improved in area's and lower in others, it also gives a much better scaling through the levels where needed.
Long hots non % based
I see nothing changed so you get another old post!:
Again please please lower the delays, in the current iteration they are basically no use using for the fixer nor his team, them being mostly an ncu debuff.
Drop em back down to 10 seconds and adjust the healing slightly, there WILL be levels where fixers will be better off with these over there % hots but the % hots will always be more beneficial in most situations due to the faster ticking.
Numbers ideally would be along the lines of:
750, 500, 400, 350, 300, 200, 100, 50, 25.
Giving a hps scale from 2.5 to 75, lower ones matching current hps (first one being boosted slightly) and the top ones gaining the boost we really need for them to be useful at that level
Long hots % based
Again, no changes I can see so:
% based hots could be done with rescaling, lower % they should do is 5, highest 7.
so its 5% 10 delay, 9 delay, 8 delay, 7 delay, 6% 10 delay, 9 delay, 8 delay, 7 delay, 7% 9 delay, 8 delay, 7 delay.
If I were to put them in a chart showing their heal delay with approximate min hps (the hp's you'll have when you get them) and max hp's (the ones Funcom thinks we can get) and compare them to my adjusted normal hots:
%min 0.28 | 4.69 | 10.71 | 15 | 26.67 | 41.25 | 60 | 62.2 | 78.75 | 100 |
%max 2.78 | 9.38 | 21.43 | 30 | 46.67 | 60 | 77.14 | 77.78| 131.25| 150 |
Non% 1.5 | 5 | 10 | 20 | 30 | 35 | 40 | 50 | 75 | n/a |
As you can see generally the non% ones are best at the base level you can cast them but the % ones become better as you level up to the next ones, and can be pushed higher with high HP set ups eventually however the % ones are best over all but not until the levels where fixers currently lack decent hots.
Of course the Max % ones generally wont be reached in a normal build even at the top of each level, not without outside buffs, the highest they'll go in a general fixer build (or mine, which is max body dev and a few +1000 hp items) is around 130 hps.
% ones will generally be prefered for their faster healing even if they have a lower HPS so they would promote high HP builds while not completely penalizing a fixer for not wearing every bit of +hp gear at all times and allowing them to use the non% hots for those times.
B+E and perception buffs
Not something I touched on before, but Im liking the current ones, other than the mistype in the costs of the two, the addition of a new perception buff is nice to try and even out the curves. Also yay for keeping out concealment buff.
Ranged Energy Buffs
Ahhh you nearly got me there, thought you'd seen sense and removed em, but nope you tried hiding them by adding them to our smg buffs infact with that change you removed the 2 reasonably large targetable buffs for others so a rather worthless buff for us has become even less useful so you get this again:
These are not so useful, even if you were to open up fixers RE perks, introduce competative RE weapons and bung equivelant RE on our SMG stuff we'd loose too much AR and spend too much IP to make this a viable build.
There are plenty of better options, including but not limited to something like a breaking and entry attack system.
I outlined this in other posts but a quick rundown would be:
Fixer can make guns that use B+E as their equip and attack skill, with a trap disarm + dodge defense skill.
These guns would have access to the specials (burst/fling/full auto) but would run off B+E, their damage would be lower but the option of building the gun in several different ways to give a boost would be available and they would be dual wieldable.
top level one for example:
Envy: 268 - 408 (around 1246 - 1897 dps)
Hacker Gun NCU Overload edition: 200-350 100% 250 damage nuke, 75% 500 damage nuke, 50% 1000 damage nuke (around 1055-1752 reliable dps and upto 1805 - 2502 dps if constantly lucky)
Hacker Gun NCU Fragmentation edition: 240-400 100% 250 snare, 75% 250 AAO debuff, 50% 250 init debuff (1116 - 1860 dps)
(large dps's calculated with 2750 MBS at 1/1 attack rate)
and so on, then all thats needed is a quick change to the B+E numbers on current fixer equipment, revisit of the thief perk line (extending to 10 and introducing some actual perk actions) and maybe a few items/nanos that do b+e based attack checks for some nice debuffs (see fixers box of tricks thread for ideas)
This would give plenty of new build options including viable cross builds that sacrifice top scale dd from both but gain the utility of both. Would probably come with some sacrifice to other skills as well
Also add in a 2 handed SMG that does bigger hits but slower regulars and fixers could easily have 4 different builds that are not identical but aren't so far from each other in usefulness that one would be used over the other in general and would come down to fixers play styles.
Last edited by Xenotric; May 15th, 2011 at 00:38:29.
Burst Buffs
Can't see any changes so I will reiterate my previous concerns:
These aren't bad but they could do with scaling a little differently to allow for people to still twink a bit closer to now (though still no where near)
My number suggestions would be from top to bottom: [240], [190], 130, 80, 40
[] are self only.
the amounts would be better spread across and allow for easier twinking while not making soldier buffs redundant or allowing soldiers a higher maximum in total (though they will be able to twink a little higher untill 155)
Damage buffs
Wow its almost like you read my post about this one! Almost!
You changes the improves to be self and kept the others as target, however you seemed to have removed the self only line that allows a fixer to actually use their buffs before it gets overwritten by other peoples much better versions of targetable ones.... and this is bad, doubly so if you factor in the fact that you moved all the little +damage from lines that actually did stack into these lines so unless the self get their own lines or all fixer damage buffs stack with other peoples our buffs are going to get overwritten and our damage is going to go down.
But grats on finally smoothing out the numbers though, they always seemed a bit wonky at times.
NCU buffs
Can't see any changes unless the colour changes mean your removing the "auto cast the highest version people can handle" thing, which would be a shame but its not really a necessity
Evade buffs
Don't see any change beyond a better ncu cost spread so old concerns again:
Ok so fixers are loosing 40 evade/duck and 250 dodge.. thats a bit nasty specially with the hot nerf. however I will accept that if the hots get fixed to levels nearing what I detailed above, however it would be nice if the 25% was raised to say... 30%? 5% more dodge just to off set the massive 250 drop would be nice. Dropping it from 250 down to only around 186 (still the biggest defence drop out of the evade professions)
But I do think fixers need some more low level team evade buffs, first should be at 25, of around 30 ish and then 2 more at 75 for 100 and 125 for 150.
This would give froob fixers some better level scale defences and the same team buffing capabilities as the martial artist, the down side being the fixer ones are level locked, martial artist ones are not.
The top one could also do with loosing around 50 PM and SI
Team runspeed buffs
Ok so a loss of 20 runspeed in the top one and both freedom and accelerator buffing the same?
Think that needs a quick relook, though the adjusted values across the rest of them look reasonable.
Single Target Runspeed Buffs
Now psionic pool... yaay! I think? Oh others are as well... not sure why running is a psionic thing rather than a space thing.... but oh well....
Movement Auras
Loss of 5 from the second highest, I guess it smooths numbers about, oh and this one is also making you move faster by the power of your mind rather than you know movement of space! hurray!
GA/SWS lines
No change, they look decent, of course dont know the item changes to the actual armours yet... be wary!
Smuggler lines
Can't see any changes, they look ok still I guess, though if other things aren't sorted out properly we'll just be slightly faster than average shop terminals.
Fixer Grid and SL fixer grid
No changes, look fine
Evacs and grid lines + Garden warps
Ok I guess, would rather team one be higher nano cost but same cast. Also the line could be colapsed a bit and introduce a new line thats usable in every situation rather than just rarely (see evac beacon idea in http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...07&postcount=6)
Otherwise their cooldowns could do with halving
The non emergency ones could do with their cast times majorly reducing.
Whats the point in making us wait 20-40 seconds to grid? Drop em to 10, 5, 1 and slap on a "cannot be used while in combat" tag, or is this just a ploy to get everyone including fixers to buy your instant grid items? Theres just no need for it, specially since the SL garden warps are so much more useful and are all pretty quick casts!
Garden warps look fine also, though why they have a minute cooldown I don't know, but it doesn't really matter, theres not really anything that asks you to move around that fast (also you can use the in garden warp features if need be) unlike rubi-ka where fixers get a specific quest that demands they move around through the grid fast in a way your currently looking to remove/cripple beyond use.
Evade Debuffs
a 50 point increase to the top one but not much else, my old feedback:
The duration could do with being kicked to 20s, possibly even with the cooldown reduced to 20s, fixers got a lot to cast and wont be keeping it up permenatly without help, but I do think they should have the option for it. But I'd settle for the 20s duration and the pvm seperate duration below.
And can we have a seperate PVM check of the current one (5 minutes) otherwise its not going to be worth using in any PVM situation where as now its at least nice for throwing on bosses and tough mobs to help the non weapon proficient professions.
Orbital Strike Jammer
Err... its shiny? maybe?
NCU wipe
Looks ok still
Its part of the team one, note the Targets Team Cast part. So not only the target but their team as well gets it.
Oh, didn't look that change, guess it works even if the target is not teamed.
I agree with a lot of points made.
1. I'm not able to conceptualize how the numbers will work out in game but I think all three hot lines need work. When your only defense is evades you can easily get a run of being hit 3+ times due to sheer bad luck. I could be wrong but it doesn't look like the hots are going to heal enough in that time frame...especially against the fast-hitting mobs (mantis, robots, etc.). It looks to me like even a +20% RK mission would become psychotically brutal for a levelling paid fixer.
2. Nanocost - fixer nanopool and fixer nanoskills are screwed up and have been screwed up since the start. I've read in other FC comments that -cost is going to be nerfed. Given that, I don't see how a fixer is going to keep up snares, short hot, and the occasional debuff. Maybe with snares breaking less there will be fewer recasts but...ip is going to be even tighter now that hp has to be twinked continuously. And with these hot nerfs we are being pushed into a situation where we have to keep both hots 100% of the time. Where is the ip for nanopool coming from - especially since fixers already ignore or limit psychic TL2-TL 5 to free up ip for other dark blue nanoskills?
3. Gridding - you've made fgrid quest unreasonably difficult. This is a quest that people sweat as is, adding a chunk of time to each step of the Run, Fixer, Run process isn't going to help. There shouldn't be a cooldown on solo grids. If there's some pvp mechanic that is causing a problem fix that - all this is doing is adding hassle to something that is currently working.
Also - why add cast time instant evacs? The point of evac is that it's *instant* - slam the button and bail. Nobody plans for emergency evacuation - then it wouldn't be an emergency. This current incarnation is an emergency evac for when you have a couple seconds to realize the problem, hope you're not init debuffed and then cast. Makes no sense. These lines are NOT broken in PVM. I can't speak to PVP but I would hope you could come up with a better work around than this mess if there is some type of exploiting. Please keep in mind that fixers are full def and don't dump massive ip in nanoinit. Don't add to the list of dark blue skills that we have to now IP.
4. Wake Up Call - Xenotric mentioned it's remove other, I'm hoping that's just a line change.
5. As mentioned, evade debuffs are very useful in PVM raids to allow casters and support profs to land their perks, etc. Can we get some PVM functionality on this? Right now my fixer would need an NT in team, pnh, and -cost buffs to be willing to even consider spamming this bad boy.
6. Figured I'd toss this one in since it's been a personal complaint since 2003. Kill GA. Balance fixers without it.
In general, I think this rebalance will make life much, much, harder for fixers in the level 60-130 range and it won't help the fixers already slogging through the ugly 170-205 range.
On Program Override, is there any chance that we can have it remade to a debuff based on what's running on the target instead of it's current and planned buff removal?
The buff removal is a complete lackluster, this goes for Program Override, Defeat Righteousness and Epsilon Purge. It would be a ton better to have them all changed to debuffs based on buffs/perks running or just make them remove perks and leave buffs alone. Having them remove buffs is annoying, rebuffing is annoying, having to find a new outside buff is annoying, living while still having those buffs gone is annoying.
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I haven't had much chance to pop in here the last few days and keep stuff updated, but I'll most likely go through and update the feedback/concerns/bugs portion of the OP this weekend. Still would really like someone to drop me a line about structuring the *rest* of the OP - If you're interested, toss me a PM. =)
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Shadowwebspinners
As they are now, it's like getting ketchup out of a glass bottle, first you get nothing, then nothing and at last every thing at once.
(So this is how I think the defense modifiers and level requirements would make more sense)
SWS I
lvl 25
50 aad
SWS II
lvl50
100 aad
SWS III
lvl75
150 aad
SWS IV
lvl100
210 aad
SWS V
lvl 125
260 aad
SWS VI
lvl 150
320 aad
SWS VII
lvl 175
aad 400
SWS VIII
lvl 200
aad 500
SWS IX
lvl 205
aad 620
SWS X
lvl 210
aad 800
SWS XI
lvl 215
aad 1000
Casting and wearing requirements should ofc be appropriate for each level too.....
(and beating a dead horse with a stick, not related with the nano doc but....)
Syndicate brain of the messenger is still missing abilities and/or nano resist.
No OFAB pads for fixers.
No burst in right-arm artillery symbiants (besides Xan Right Arm Symbiant, Artillery Unit Alpha)
Slighty OT but since somebody touched the subject in this thread i'll still go ahead and post something about it.
There are several debuffs in game that affect runspeed and similar things that fixers (and other
profs) that do have tools to remove, but the happen to be in other nanolines that snare/root so it still dosen't affect those (alba comes to mind with mobs debuffing rs & nanoinit witch are unremovable)
So i'm hoping all of that will be looked into and taking into consideration, thanks
It would take a single employee 30 minutes to fix all the skills missing from various symbiants since 2003. How dare you, sir.
Now, one of the reasons we’ve spent the last month arguing about the debt ceiling is that half of the "teabag" Congress signed a vow to never raise taxes. Someone just handed them something and it wasn’t a gun, a crucifix or a fetus — so they signed it. Why? "Because we’re rugged individuals who love freedom. Now excuse us while we sign this document swearing to do as we’re told." --Bill Maher
I definitely agree that SWS needs to scale up better. A fixer is pretty fragile until they've built up enough evades to handle themselves.
Fixers don't get much nanopool, so I'd like to see the short HoTs cost less.
A % of HP with a flat bonus would help to scale HoTs more appropriately.
I don't like any sort of lockout/timer/debuff associated with any of the grid lines. I think it degrades the profession as a whole when it's already lost much if its identity to convenience items. It no longer serves the function of cheating death to save your XP, so why not allow us this convenience without penalty? If there's an issue with Notum Wars, I'd prefer you fix that properly instead of slapping a restriction on one of the sexiest utilities (and professions)in the entire game.
On to mebbe-offtopic things....
I'd like to see HoTs heal double maybe 1/10 ticks. It may not be now, it may not be the next time I get hit, but I'd like to know that there's a serious amount of HP coming my way on a regular basis. Plus it'd be luck-based!
I always wanted my fixer to have a taunt. I can out-dodge almost anything anywhere aside from major bosses, but it amounts to a hill of beans in a group. The enforcer might die to 100 little cuts that a fixer can easily avoid, but will never get the chance to do so because the only real taunts they have are full auto and snares/roots. Oh, and while rolling a nanomage fixer is the greatest taunting stick known to man, it's just ugly. Fixers don't do ugly. Not intentionally at least.
You mentioned having B&E influence your dodge/evade, but I'd rather see it influence nano resistance. It makes sense thematically, and provides them with at least an optional cushion in their weakest defense.
And finally... IP is tight on fixers. Dual wield, full auto and nano skills are all dark. I definitely approve of the boosting of the Hacker Interface, but you're not considering 2 more expansions that came out with ever-higher requirements. Could either tone down some of the costs or teach an old interface new tricks. For example, put in an "improved" hacker interface that requires X perk or research, like you need AI3 to equip high-end aliumz armor. At least then we wouldn't need to put so much into CoNC to compensate.
What's with the ridiculously short snares? Let me guess - some PvPeen whiner cried that he got snared in PvP, so now all of us PvM Fixers are getting crapped on in a PRIMARILY PvM-ORIENTED GAME. Longer snares never made us overpowered in PvM.
And when are you going to fix the HoTs? Keep the Healing-Per-Minute the same, but reduce the tick delay. That next lifesaving tick is going to be meaningless if we have to wait 10-20 seconds for it. I'd rather have small heals at a faster rate than big heals at a slow rate that will never save us from death as we wait a seeming eternity for the next tick.
Yeah, great idea. While they're at it, they can issue a 1.5 billion credit refund for those of us who have already invested the majority of our wealth purchasing it! GREAT IDEA! Not.
Last edited by Patriotguard; May 25th, 2011 at 10:09:43.
Yup... What I see, with our nanoskill the PvP duration is too short to bother with, a lot of work to land it anyway. 1-2min duration in PvP should be fine, it is not like root anyway without ability to move, you'll just be slower. I know it is annoying, but thats what it is supposed to (partly) be?
As for PvM, mobs won't complain being snared, duration could be like 5 mins on the top ones. 50 secs for top AoE one is too short to my eye at least.
Also, did I see my only taunt is vanishing as well? It might not be huge amount, but everything helps when I try to keep agro in some situations. If we are losing the small taunt from our snares, would like to see some other agro tools, or should I just reset my evades for PvM where most others can take and keep agro easier?
I think current documentation got long hots nice enough, as long as it is not locked with cooldown to use as emergency healing. If it is locked though, like lower ones, then I wish to see slightly more healing/time.
Short HoTs should be faster though, those are what should be the emergency heals, and not the spamming of some HoT.
And I still don't like the current level locks, I guess those are there to prevent "lowbie twinking" but the twinking has been whats the fun in the game, even with all the outside buff wars.
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All but the 2 top % based long hots have at least 10 seconds cooldown, the top 2 have a rather high cost, so you wont be spamming much for the heals.
Even if they didn't have a cooldown, the current hots are unacceptable, sure we may get some healing out of spamming them for the initial tick but thats not what they are designed to do, if we wanted and if thats what their supposed to be used for just give us normal heals.
Otherwise they need to seriously sort out what their doing with out hots, cos with the current documentation theres basically no point using them.
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