Friday Discussion w/Means on RK2

[Autofil]

Places where MP's are needed:
1. Trade Grid for buffs.
2. OA Grid for buffs.
3. Sometimes AFK @ informant with the healpet.

The list posted earlier where mp's are "needed" is bogus, everything is doable solo but the PB's.

[Kaitlain]

@ Hacre.

Ok, you've given a list, which most MPs know about.

However these are "one time only" raids.

1) Ice golem - done once / toon (with x6 drops)
2) Inf PB - done once / toon (with at least 6 toons getting a key, no idea if the raid interface messes this up)
3) Mordeth / Galahad - done once (?) for Sanct key, same as above, unless you're farming phatz (?)
4) IS - ancient content only done for a couple of drops (mostly MotR), and doable as a pair these days

You'll notice something here: ALL of this content wise is over 7 years old.

5) Informant - heal pet is "nice". I'll file this under "heals are always 'nice'".


Let's compare with crats (listing stuff which they're regarded as 'essential' - although of course, you can do all content without a prof):


1) DB 2 (also 1, but in particular 2)
2) 12 Man
3) Apf
4) Albatrum

Places they're considered just 'very nice indeed':

1) Arid rift / Vortexx
2) Pande


So basically, we can do a :<insert all new content here>


Simply put, Crat's abilities to init debuff / mezz is a no-brainer for PvE content. That's fine, but MPs (who actually, you know, have a specific mezz pet) can't offer anything similar. Which is odd, given that it is part of our tool set. SL debuffs / damage reduction is also part of our toolset, which... are over-written by crat debuffs (which essentially means that a choice is made, and is made in favour of crats).


There's not an argument here, at all. If Means stated that Crats & MPs are comparable in PvE (still not seen it sourced, so might not be true), it is simply incorrect. If he did say it, I'm left confused and essentially depressed at the state (and future potential) of one of the most fun classes in the game.

[Sheffsammie]

If Means stated that Crats & MPs are comparable in PvE (still not seen it sourced, so might not be true), it is simply incorrect. If he did say it, I'm left confused and essentially depressed at the state (and future potential) of one of the most fun classes in the game.

He did not actually say that, as unfortunately my quip about crats making docs obsolete ended up distracting from the point I was trying to make about the balance between crats and other support profs.

Hopefully thought the discussion it has raised in here will merit FC looking closer at the PvM utility of support profs. It seems to be often forgotten in the constant search for PvP balance that a lot of people focus on the PvM side of the game, and we would like to not only play a prof that is needed, but a one we enjoy playing.

[-Klod-]

He did not actually say that...

Yes, he actually ignored the whole thing, which is most certainly not making it any better.

[Omutb]

Crats & MPs are comparable in PvE

Everything is comparable, its all about the parameters used when making the comparison.

Comparing solo performance is different to team performance, and is also dependant on where and what you are fighting against.

[Kaitlain]

Everything is comparable, its all about the parameters used when making the comparison.

Comparing solo performance is different to team performance, and is also dependant on where and what you are fighting against.

I was almost hoping someone would troll this.

Comparable doesn't mean "you can compare them", it means "equal to".

So let's break it down, shall we?

MP vrs Crats

PvE Direct DPS:

Pets - Crats
Pet buffing DPS - Crats (+500 vrs +300)
Self Weapons - Crats
Self Nukes - Crats

PvE Indirect DPS (helping other's DPS, such as Keeper +damage auras):

Nano attacks: MPs (woot!)
Weapon attacks: Crats (minor, but ICRT etc are minor aids)

PvE support utility:

Nano skills: MPs
AAD / individual defense: Crats
Init Debuffs: Crats
Damage Debuffs: MPs [but over-written by Crat's and last 24 seconds, so useless]

PvE Crowd Control (or 'CC'):

Crats, crats, crats




Anything more?


Oh, and I noticed Remember the N00b comic joke about rangers? Turns out its true in AO!

[Omutb]

Comparable doesn't mean "you can compare them", it means "equal to".

No, it doesnt, that was exactly my point, if anything it means "similar" or "capable of similar", but never "equal".

And yet, you then go on to directly compare specific things, which I would really doubt is how Means and the Devs compare things.

Ok, let me add the bit you forgot

MPs, have heal pet
Crats, have almost no healing skills

There, Ive proved MPs are awesome and uber because they can heal themselves.

[Hacre]

So basically, the consensus is that the Crat tricks are more applicable than MP tricks.

Ok then, more boss encounters that are made easier with an NSD totem around.

/thread.

[SrslyNotEyo]

5) Informant - heal pet is "nice". I'll file this under "heals are always 'nice'".


Let's compare with crats (listing stuff which they're regarded as 'essential' - although of course, you can do all content without a prof):


1) DB 2 (also 1, but in particular 2)
2) 12 Man
3) Apf
4) Albatrum

First, I'd like to say that only MP's can heal the Informant... As far as I know.

As for five things you listed Crats "Essential" for... I think I'd only agree w/ 12m for Boss Mezz. Even then, it's really only nice to have, not essential.

No need to bite my head off, I was just trying to make a point as to where they WOULD be useful, but instead I get attacked, so I'll just go /emo... Maybe a little /Wrist

[Anarchic1]

if you are complaining crats can't get a team then you are prolly the most incompetent pvmer in thsi game.

Crats can solo farm alba.
And are desired in every endgame encounter.
If you wanna make some serious credits, roll a crat

[MachSchau]

I would like to see MPs damage debuff be extended to the point where it debuffs a huge amount and is needed to complete future content.

[Kaitlain]

if you are complaining crats can't get a team then you are prolly the most incompetent pvmer in thsi game.

Crats can solo farm alba.
And are desired in every endgame encounter.
If you wanna make some serious credits, roll a crat

Hmm.


Can't tell if you've missed the point, or are arguing for my point.



But yes: anyone who plays the game knows that:

DD Engies --> Top PvE damage
General Crats --> third PvE damage

...

...



MPs. #7-9



Its sad, and annoying. Its not like Engies are useful in PvP, they only win duel competitions all the time, or anything, or crats can't PvP at all and constantly stun*/ get their pets to actually kill people...

oh.

wait.



LOL WUT?











*Double LOL WUT? for the fact that Crat LE procs got nerfed because they were perma stunning people in PvP to the extent that it was like PvE for them. Even Crat players agreed it was totally game breaking.





Still waiting for any of this to sink in. But:


THREE BLOCKERS ON A TURTLE DEF CHAR THAT CAN'T KILL YOU IS BROKEN, KK!!>!>110101010




So it gets nerfed. And MPs still can't kill you. Or survive. Or actually PvP.




<sigh>



p.s. @ Means:


Engies win PvE DD
Engies win PvP competitions
Crats are top #3 PvE DD
Crats are #5 PvP toon



MPs are basically last in PvP [traders got better] and about in the bottom half (NTs without alium levels) for PvE damage.


Go figure already.

{edited:size of text}

[Hacre]

My word your posting style really makes your posts annoying.

[-Klod-]

My word your posting style really makes your posts annoying.

We MPs feel the same. Meaning - we feel annoyed by current FC ignorance. I take it, he's she's (my bad ) simply "channeling" that annoyance to others, unwillingly.

[Kaitlain]

We MPs feel the same. Meaning - we feel annoyed by current FC ignorance. I take it, he's simply "channeling" that annoyance to others, unwillingly.

She's doing it deliberately.

'Cause, you know, someone pointing out that MPs are nice for NSDing nuking mobs which are seven years old is news to MPs in general.