An Agent's future..

[Esproc]

As fun as a 3 second snare sounds.
It still boils down to 3 out of every 11 seconds the target being snared/pseudo-rooted with no defense check.

AKA kiting made easy, now with NR8!
Etc.

[Huonosihti]

Oh. Didn't even think about how easy kiteing would be with snare like that. good point !

[Scrinny]

Just a suggestion even though I would love it to happen. As an agent we get AS and fling but most now a day combat sniper rifles can perform bursts and full auto. Now I am not asking for full auto but I am asking for burst. Besides every ranged class but us agents has burst and I feel left out... Our symbs and our css give it us so why cant FC upgrade angst of xan with burst.

Good day.

Scrinny

[Xootch]

...i love people arguing with reality for a virtual game. oh and i just wanna make love with the point we should get every special boosted by *our* symbs and *OUR* css.

anyways. is none of you scared, that this 3 sec interruptable initial plus the burstish second as will be the biggest agent offense nerf since...like ever? i can't really imagine how to kill anyone with a strike that - in duels - will always be interrupted and fling + burstish fling as that will miss a lot? and don't tell me you can perk people. our perks are slow in total and you won't be able to perk most profs (unless gimp). but hey: we can still rp. (...and on the bright side: we're dragging traders down with us!)

[Ebondevil]

anyways. is none of you scared, that this 3 sec interruptable initial plus the burstish second as will be the biggest agent offense nerf since...like ever? i can't really imagine how to kill anyone with a strike that - in duels - will always be interrupted and fling + burstish fling as that will miss a lot? and don't tell me you can perk people. our perks are slow in total and you won't be able to perk most profs (unless gimp). but hey: we can still rp. (...and on the bright side: we're dragging traders down with us!)

Actually yes the slow cast on AS is a concern though I believe it's only interruptible by melee so you should be able to use it, either by rooting the melee target or in fights with Ranged people, at worst just sneak at the start of the fight to use it, all in all not quite as dire as you say.

As for our perks they're getting sped up to average around 2 second execution instead of averaging just over 4 seconds execution.

There's also the little detail that the dev's have shown they're now more than willing to change things if there's a problem with them, which before wasn't the case. We'll get to see how all this stuff works on the Beta server which has been set up for the purpose of seeing how well the changes work out, and I'm sure the Dev's will be listening to the feedback from these changes. Finally try and keep in mind that it's not just the Agent profession that's being changed, all the other professions are undergoing rebalancing as well which will interact with and effect the effectiveness of the Agent specific changes.

[Esproc]

I remember people saying agents wouldn't ever kill anyone again when pvp caps where put in.
Don't misunderestimate the powah!

[Lupusceleri]

Yeah the 3s casttime and interruptable crap obviously needs work. For one the 3s casttime is stupid for Agents, when every other special ingame is just instant, and besides it makes it hell to use in an alpha - and tbh the thing being able to miss is nerf enough.

Don't forget we're getting that secondary AS too, though, so if the details ever get worked out I hope it can adequately compensate for the nerf.

But at this point we haven't had new information from the devs for quite a while either. I guess they're cooking up new stuff while we wait. So they can give us an overview when they're done and we can comment on everything at once instead of only looking at the small picture.

[Xootch]

As for our perks they're getting sped up to average around 2 second execution instead of averaging just over 4 seconds execution.[...]

2+2+2+2 = 8secs = e.g. 2 bi, ie. plenty of time to heal. = slow. in other words: inability to "condense" damage into a given time window.

@lupus: yeah, maybe. i was just amazed by the incredibly low whine-level here...considering it's ...let's say...potential severity.

I remember people saying agents wouldn't ever kill anyone again when pvp caps where put in.
Don't misunderestimate the powah!

i assume you mean reduced. other than torakx saying you wouldn't be able to kill fixers (which i disagreed with) no one said anything like that (that i remember). but bless your optimism!

[Lupusceleri]

2+2+2+2 = 8secs = e.g. 2 bi, ie. plenty of time to heal. = slow. in other words: inability to "condense" damage into a given time window.

@lupus: yeah, maybe. i was just amazed by the incredibly low whine-level here...considering it's ...let's say...potential severity.



i assume you mean reduced. other than torakx saying you wouldn't be able to kill fixers (which i disagreed with) no one said anything like that (that i remember). but bless your optimism!

Yeah, current perks ARE slow to queue up but on the other hand you can condense them into a small window. So you've got like The Shot, Concussive Shot, Pinpoint Strike, and AS/Fling or FA landing in 2-3s.

I think the reason for the incredibly low whine-o-level is that we just don't know the impact on the game yet. We've been given like a 70 degree view of the whole picture when there's 290 degrees more to be seen. And not just that, the 70 degrees we HAVE seen are subject to possible change.

So honestly. It's a little too early to panic. The first changes to Mimic and stuff are looking great so maybe, just maaaybe, the new dev team will actually hit the nail on the head.

[ArienSky]

My reason to not whine: With time I have read through all the posts about profession change for the various professions, and if we get to mimic that; I am satisfied, the new NT, Fixer, Trader, Engi and MP playstyles seems rather interesting to me, so I look forward to that.
I know the thing balancing teh new toys out will be FP/AP/Mimic debuffs, but as long as I do not know the debuffs, I can not complain

I think the reason for the incredibly low whine-o-level is that we just don't know the impact on the game yet. We've been given like a 70 degree view of the whole picture when there's 290 degrees more to be seen. And not just that, the 70 degrees we HAVE seen are subject to possible change.

And that someone choose this to be a poll, meaning that whenever someone votes, you get a reminder that this thread has been updated under subscriptions, even though there is no new posts.. meaning people are likely to ignore new posts, as they think it is just another vote.

So for another time: don't have important debates in poll threads; separate them.

Kind Regards
-Ariensky

[Ebondevil]

And that someone choose this to be a poll, meaning that whenever someone votes, you get a reminder that this thread has been updated under subscriptions, even though there is no new posts.. meaning people are likely to ignore new posts, as they think it is just another vote.

So for another time: don't have important debates in poll threads; separate them.

Kind Regards
-Ariensky

Wasn't me. Personally though I check this thread to keep updated on the status of the Poll or any new posts each time it gets updated.

[Esproc]

Wasn't me. Personally though I check this thread to keep updated on the status of the Poll or any new posts each time it gets updated.

Yus

[Xootch]

My reason to not whine: With time I have read through all the posts about profession change for the various professions, and if we get to mimic that; I am satisfied, the new NT, Fixer, Trader, Engi and MP playstyles seems rather interesting to me, so I look forward to that.
I know the thing balancing teh new toys out will be FP/AP/Mimic debuffs, but as long as I do not know the debuffs, I can not complain



And that someone choose this to be a poll, meaning that whenever someone votes, you get a reminder that this thread has been updated under subscriptions, even though there is no new posts.. meaning people are likely to ignore new posts, as they think it is just another vote.

So for another time: don't have important debates in poll threads; separate them.

Kind Regards
-Ariensky

actually that wasn't the topic to not whine about. but thanks.

[Tinypain]

Mmm....I welcome changes to perk-time attack reduction. This is nice and overdue. I think the changes in AS are good for the mass but potentially failure for agents. Remember...AS fires instant from sneak when the new changes come. So that conceal all of you IPRed may be worth putting back into. They are also making the old change back to The Shot being loaded from sneak...so in theory we can get a nice little alpha qued up from sneak, against certain prof.

Problem is our debuff toolset (bullseye) needs us unsneaked and we aren't perking a lot of prof without that with our current AR...and even less possibly with changes of AS check going to Rifle check.

Also wouldn't mind some serious thought into maybe increasing sneak movement speed...tie it to the ruse nanos. I know it's been suggested before but if they expect sneak to be utilized as part of our toolset to make up for shortcomings they need to improve the mechanics of it further than they already have on test.

[Esproc]

Sneak movement speed improved by having more sneak skill would be nice.

Or maybe just have the option to run/walk while in sneak.
Where run lets you use full movement speed but you only apply 30% of the concealment skill.
And walk sets you to walking speed (or slightly slower :?) and full concealment skill applied.

[Tinypain]

Sneak movement speed improved by having more sneak skill would be nice.

Or maybe just have the option to run/walk while in sneak.
Where run lets you use full movement speed but you only apply 30% of the concealment skill.
And walk sets you to walking speed (or slightly slower :?) and full concealment skill applied.

I'd rather see the ruse nanos tie in with the potential for increased run speed while concealed. That or create a whole new line of nanos that coincide with it. Though I think agent is under enough ncu strain as is.

Ruse1: +200 concealment / -20% size
Ruse2 +400 concealment / -40% size
Ruse3 +600 concealment / -60% size
Ruse4: +800 concealment / -80% size

Maybe something like...

Default concealed runspeed = -95% of current run speed (or base, whatever, either way its slow!)

Ruse1: +200 concealment / -20% size / +15% concealed run speed
Ruse2 +400 concealment / -40% size / +30% concealed run speed
Ruse3 +600 concealment / -60% size / +45% concealed run speed
Ruse4: +800 concealment / -80% size / +60% concealed run speed


So lets say your self run speed is approx 2150 at 220. Your run speed would be reduced by 95% when concealed. This leaves you with a conceal runspeed of 107. Slow.

With the revised ruse buffs on you...you'd have...

Ruse1: +200 concealment / -20% size / +15% concealed run speed = 430 run speed
Ruse2 +400 concealment / -40% size / +30% concealed run speed = 752 run speed
Ruse3 +600 concealment / -60% size / +45% concealed run speed = 1075 run speed
Ruse4: +800 concealment / -80% size / +60% concealed run speed = 1397 run speed

Obviously the numbers could be tweaked a bit. But that doesn't look half bad. Might need re-adjustment based on level even? That way scaling might work better for TL5. Idk just an idea.

[Esproc]

I'd rather see the ruse nanos tie in with the potential for increased run speed while concealed. That or create a whole new line of nanos that coincide with it. Though I think agent is under enough ncu strain as is.

Ruse1: +200 concealment / -20% size
Ruse2 +400 concealment / -40% size
Ruse3 +600 concealment / -60% size
Ruse4: +800 concealment / -80% size

Maybe something like...

Default concealed runspeed = -95% of current run speed (or base, whatever, either way its slow!)

Ruse1: +200 concealment / -20% size / +15% concealed run speed
Ruse2 +400 concealment / -40% size / +30% concealed run speed
Ruse3 +600 concealment / -60% size / +45% concealed run speed
Ruse4: +800 concealment / -80% size / +60% concealed run speed


So lets say your self run speed is approx 2150 at 220. Your run speed would be reduced by 95% when concealed. This leaves you with a conceal runspeed of 107. Slow.

With the revised ruse buffs on you...you'd have...

Ruse1: +200 concealment / -20% size / +15% concealed run speed = 430 run speed
Ruse2 +400 concealment / -40% size / +30% concealed run speed = 752 run speed
Ruse3 +600 concealment / -60% size / +45% concealed run speed = 1075 run speed
Ruse4: +800 concealment / -80% size / +60% concealed run speed = 1397 run speed

Obviously the numbers could be tweaked a bit. But that doesn't look half bad. Might need re-adjustment based on level even? That way scaling might work better for TL5. Idk just an idea.

A good concept, but it doesn't help others who have concealment as a part of their toolset.

Shades primarily would benefit from some love in this regard.
But there are others as well.

I'd prefer to see it go based on IP'd skill than just a few nano's. Unsure as to how hard it would be to include concealment buffs into the scaling though.

[Tinypain]

A good concept, but it doesn't help others who have concealment as a part of their toolset.

Shades primarily would benefit from some love in this regard.
But there are others as well.

I'd prefer to see it go based on IP'd skill than just a few nano's. Unsure as to how hard it would be to include concealment buffs into the scaling though.

Problem with basing it on pure IP is they need to then include specific scaling that only effects agent/shade profession, sort of like backstab for advy/shade only. Otherwise everyone would see an increased benefit which imho doesn't make it part of our toolset anymore but rather part of everyones toolset.

Shade could have similiar %speed increase added to their pre-existing run speed and/or concealment buffs. Shade already needs a boost in concealment as is..maybe FC can provide new "ruse" type nanos for shade which provide concealment, zero %size change and follow a similiar pattern to what I suggested by adding the % run speed increase.

I think the hardest part of implementing any type of concealed run speed increase would be making sure its not OP at lower title levels.

[Ebondevil]

Problem with basing it on pure IP is they need to then include specific scaling that only effects agent/shade profession, sort of like backstab for advy/shade only. Otherwise everyone would see an increased benefit which imho doesn't make it part of our toolset anymore but rather part of everyones toolset.

Why shouldn't others benefit if they spend IP in concealment?

[Esproc]

I'd like to see the -% scale stay unique to agents, though a different effect could be cool.

Maybe something similar to cloaking device could be for shades, but really I'd rather see what the shades would like in that regard.
Though that visual effect, to me, seems like a really cool option for a "short" duration conceal buff.
In the case of shades it'd likely add some AAD/Evade.