An Agent's future..

[ProkyonFroob]

ProkyonFroob, I disagree with you.

I know what it currently does, the idea was to change TP's functionality along with the sweeping FP changes we're seeing. I agree that currently it is merely a time saver, but that very time saved was what kept the balance in check, namely with what we could get added. It's very hard to balance a profession when you're talking about abilities from multiple professions. Also I wasn't suggesting an NCU wipe, just the buffs that you cast while in a prof to be canceled when you True Prof. Oh by the way, I can't believe I forgot this, but the whole idea was based on the removal of the lockout. It would be incredibly pointless if the lockout remained in effect.

Few people bothered to wait those 20 minutes, and if they did, the benefits rarely warranted doing it again. Essentially when we got TP, we got an extra buff from another prof. Which certainly wasn't a bad thing since agents needed love, but it was also somewhere both other players and FC could point to when agents would ask for something and say, "But you have that." I liked using TP, it added variety to the otherwise standard doc fare, but I think its time is up. FP as a whole is changing, and for the better I think. What I suggested is in itself a way to save time, but to a different effect. It's to save time when using professions, so we can swap them out when feel the need. Tank just die and has to run back? True Prof, Shadow Enf. Doc? The same. True Prof would function to allow us to truly be the fill-in where needed, without having to wait to do so.

Also I wasn't suggesting an NCU wipe, just the buffs that you cast while in a prof to be canceled when you True Prof. The idea is to swap profs whenever we feel the need to do so. (except in combat, because that'd be totally overpowered). With the revamp of all the FPs, buffing ourselves with other prof's buffs should be unnecessary anyway. I certainly understand where you're coming from and I would have absolutely agreed with you in the past, but given all these new revelations and changes, I think True Prof is up for change too.

I like to think agents were originally intended as the filler profession, this is just taking that concept a step further.

[ArienSky]

Thank you for your posts
well Lupusceleri, apparently you never bring MP pets to the BS?
Sure they do not do much endgame, and even teh top Agents at TL5 do not use the.. but I think it is a fun addition, it also is a bit extra healing to bring them along to BS.

Yes, tower wars are time critical, I will give you that

The strange thing is that I have always done the "two profession buffs", for as long as I can remember, back when the MP pets were shorter, it was MP, NT, DOC, MP, NT, DOC.. etc. while farming tokens in missions and getting pearls in SL.
That combination was especially needed in SL, just sticking to doc, was too little nanopoints, and the combat pet was +33% more damage, and the heal pet a nice HOT. Further more the combat pet could take agro when social mobs came.
I am talking pre-mimic soloing DOC could be replaced with ENF.

Usually I will stop playing if I get killed, the prospect of going MP and wait 20 min. is so discouraging that I often log off. Also Dark Ruins, that required two professions to be used, at least for me. (lvl 172 AI 8, full research)
Darned it was annoying dieing there..

Interesting to see that you do not play agents like that, I have done so since I first started FPing.

On the new TP function: I can not see an easy solution to "removing buffs that were cast in FP", I can see _a_ solution, but it means a lot of restructuring and checks on nanos and how they run.

Sure in the future the chain of professions and buffs might not be as needed as it is now, with True Agent, being promised as a real alternative..

But waiting 20 min. never made me OverPowered, I would still solo better on my trader or keeper

and again, most buffs we can FP are buffs we can get from others, I once asked those against TP if tehy could name some self-only buff that they thought made TP unbalanced. The engi shield ripper was mentioned.
That indeed is teh core of it: TP is a tool for us to solo, to get our buffs quickly, not gain godhood, because we do not have access to the powerful self-only long lasting buffs.. most nanoes we have are combat buffs, only useable when we are in that mimic.

The only place it gives an advantage is in duels, due to player rules, in teams you can get the buffs from others.

I too would like to see the agents as a substitute of the real professions in teams, hopefully that will come, and stacking buffs will not be as needed as it is now.

Kind Regards
-Ariensky

[ProkyonFroob]

On the new TP function: I can not see an easy solution to "removing buffs that were cast in FP", I can see _a_ solution, but it means a lot of restructuring and checks on nanos and how they run.

Yeah as I said, I'm totally with you when it comes to the current state of True prof. Agreed 100%. My suggestions are meant to accompany the other large coming changes.

I don't think it would be too hard mechanics-wise. They could just make it so when you're visual profession changes, it makes a check on all your current nanos and if they don't match, cancels the ones that don't match. I think it's doable without too much hassle.

FP is changing drastically, and with that, I think we need the ability to fully take advantage of these coming changes.

[ArienSky]

They could just make it so when you're visual profession changes, it makes a check on all your current nanos and if they don't match, cancels the ones that don't match. I think it's doable without too much hassle.

I thought of the same way, but it has two catches:
1) you need a flag on every running nano, to see in what visual profession they were cast in. That will affect other professions as well if run that way.

2) it clears all buffs of "visual profession ==" the profession you left. That will also clear OSBs, not those you only cast yourself.

ok, there is the possibility of a list for each agent, what nanos they have cast under there current mimic.. again not that simple looking at current standards.


Sure it can be done, but not like the AO system is now. and compared to just clearing all NCU, I think it is too much manipulation for too little.
using lines of the BS code, you can make it so hostile nanoes do not get cleared though. But all in all, a lot of work, for little effect.

A nice suggestion, but in al practicality, I would rather have a "clear all NCU" than nothing of that kind.. (/terminate is still there though).
Doing it as you wish it, would mean messing with how NCUs are cast and work, not only for agents, but likely other professions as well..

Adjust the cast-time of the SL damage nanoes, and re-buffing those Agent nanos should not be a problem after an NCU clear.
If you have buffs from your team, you can kindly ask them to recast on you

again, that is just a technical and economical viewpoint, not something against the spirit of the idea.
in so only saying that:
clear cast NCU > clear all NCU > /terminate
( > == "larger than" not "leads to")

Kind Regards
-Ariensky

PS. I forgot to comment on the roots, stuns and snares working in SL: YAY for that

[Cyberleet]

Yeah, it's great to see our core-toolset revamped, not just fp.

Some got the idea that an AO-assassin would be boring the play, I think thats the last thing happening.

I hope they get it right, I absolutely love the paper-design.

FP xxx, buff up, cast TP, SP xxx.
That's basically what is being done at the moment due to not enough nanoskills to cast TP while running a Mimic (unless you guys have gotten used to other setups already) so I don't really see what the issue is unless you want to go Keeper/Shade.

I just mentioned it, didn't say it was an issue.

If I may ask either Lup or Sromp, have you guys heard anything on changes to True Profession?

Personally, I find it in its current form to be a hindrance to revamping agents, because other professions can say, "but you can cast X, true prof, then mimic doc!" or the like.

LOL, then that is certainly not a valid hindrance.

[ProkyonFroob]

LOL, then that is certainly not a valid hindrance.

I agree, though FC doesn't. Means has had some.... shall we say, "interesting" opinions on True Prof in the past.

I thought of the same way, but it has two catches:
1) you need a flag on every running nano, to see in what visual profession they were cast in. That will affect other professions as well if run that way.

2) it clears all buffs of "visual profession ==" the profession you left. That will also clear OSBs, not those you only cast yourself.

Well if it did have such a flag, then it wouldn't even have to check visual profession, just that flag. And besides, yeah, it very could well mean introducing new mechanics, but FC is doing a ton of that anyway. This whole rebalancing act is chock full of it. It doesn't seem like a huge addition of work or anything.

[Lupusceleri]

I agree, though FC doesn't. Means has had some.... shall we say, "interesting" opinions on True Prof in the past.

Could you show me where he has stated these ... opinions, please? Or at least describe what he's said if you don't have a post.

[agentgimpy]

How can I vote on the mimics without seeing the final product? Yeah they are going to change them kinda sorta in this direction, but all these changes still sound vague at best and a very long way off.

For all we know so far, Mimic Doc may have a -1500 rifle on it or Mimic Enf might have a +500 2HB. etc etc etc

[ProkyonFroob]

Could you show me where he has stated these ... opinions, please? Or at least describe what he's said if you don't have a post.

Bah.. I can't find anything... it was nearly a year ago. I suppose talking about Means himself wasn't exactly a good idea, since if I recall correctly the only thing he said specifically was a comment on the nanoskill requirements of True Profession and saying something along the lines of agents having to make sacrifices to use it, which I always thought of as kinda ridiculous since it's a time saver. I was trying to say that Means had a thought on True Prof that I didn't agree with, not necessarily that he had troubles with it when considering balancing, though I can readily see the implication and I'll try to be a bit more clear in my posting, hah.

I thought I saw someone from FC commenting in a thread about the topic and saying something along those lines, but in retrospect, it was nearly a year ago and I very well could be mistaken. For all I know I simply mistook a vocal professional as an FC employee or something. Given that I don't have enough solid information to back up what I was saying, I'll retract what I said.

However, the players with opinions on True Prof are quite vocal (or at least were, back when it was discussed often), and while they may be wrong, they can still influence what happens.

Regardless, I'd still like to see True Prof changed into something really cool, to accompany all these coming changes.

[sultryvoltron]

How can I vote on the mimics without seeing the final product? Yeah they are going to change them kinda sorta in this direction, but all these changes still sound vague at best and a very long way off.

For all we know so far, Mimic Doc may have a -1500 rifle on it or Mimic Enf might have a +500 2HB. etc etc etc

That's why you need to throw out ideas on what you think would be fair/decent trade offs compared to the new skills that are opened up to you.

[agentgimpy]

That's why you need to throw out ideas on what you think would be fair/decent trade offs compared to the new skills that are opened up to you.

What new skills? we just have a vague idea of what they are thinking of MAYBE doing. Just a whole lot of "sort of like", "no details", "will probably be".

There is no point in voting on the popularity of the new Mimic when we dont even have a clue of what it really looks like or if they will even follow through with it.

[Ebondevil]

What new skills? we just have a vague idea of what they are thinking of MAYBE doing. Just a whole lot of "sort of like", "no details", "will probably be".

There is no point in voting on the popularity of the new Mimic when we dont even have a clue of what it really looks like or if they will even follow through with it.

Looks to me like the vote is more about whether you like the idea of all the mimics getting an overhaul, or if you'd prefer things to stay the same and fix the flaws with mimic doc, details aren't too important to make a decision about which you would prefer to happen.

[agentgimpy]

Looks to me like the vote is more about whether you like the idea of all the mimics getting an overhaul, or if you'd prefer things to stay the same and fix the flaws with mimic doc, details aren't too important to make a decision about which you would prefer to happen.

"Do you like the new mimic changes" is not "do you like the idea of mimic getting an overhaul"

Do I like the idea of mimic getting an overhaul? Yes.

Do I like the new mimic changes? What changes?

Anyhow, just pointing out that you guys are getting excited about nothing. Any changes will end up being over all nerfs. We are talking about Agents here.

[zorxer]

here's a little request... can the holograms NOT share the same skill lock? i'd like to showoff how uber i am with all 6 of them but i can only use one at a time

[Slakrr]

What I think the devs mean is that "actions" can be perk actions, but also buffs we don't cast atm. They won't cross over if you use True Profession though so won't get say, a Mimic Doc Agent with Speeches.

Thanks for reply

[Stinnipeng]

here's a little request... can the holograms NOT share the same skill lock? i'd like to showoff how uber i am with all 6 of them but i can only use one at a time

That would be more overpowered than giving agents Acrobat and Bio Shield! xD

[ArienSky]

MP pets + Engi pets + Crat pets + Trader pets = OP?

I see a solution to that though; the pets have types, the well known "you already have a pet of this type"-message, when you try to cast the 2nd heal pet.

Meaning that only 3 pets are possible:
Combat, Mess, Heal

Combat: Engi, (Trader?), MP
Mess: Crat, (Trader?), MP
Heal: MP

From the engi rebalancing post it looks like they are getting more pets and of more specialised types..

Under the current system it is a god's send to have MP pets lasting 2 hours, the healing and extra damage makes an easier life in SL for the low ti middle lvled agent.

In the future, when agents actually are on equal ground with the other professions, then comes the problem: should they stay or should they go, when mimic runs out?

The current way to limit it, is to only have the weaker pets, witch makes little to no difference endgame, but makes early agent life more enjoyable.
But in the future, the low lvl agents will not have the _huge_ init buffs, so do they really need 2 hour pets?

I would find it really cool, to see an agent with an engi combat pet, MP heal ball, and crat messer..
The thing is that they would be able to tag along with the agent in his "true agent" form, for extra damage/defence.
This ofcause only has relevance to PVM, as mentioned earlier, BS and towerwars(timefactor) only allow for 1-2 proffs.

So fellow agents
Would you like agents to be balanced around Agent + pets, more or less expecting every agent to take the time to get pets up and running to play, or like it is now, only have MP pets?

Traders have pets coming too..

Currently there is little reason to go engineer, but this might change it:

here are some ideas to begin with:
pet HoT aura. every friendly pet in the engineer's vicinity receives a constant small HoT (top buff could f.e. tick 500ish hp every five seconds)
reflect aura: top buff should give +6% reflect to any friendly entity in the engineer's vicinity. stacks with all reflect buffs
absorb aura: every friendly pet in the engineer's vicinity gets (top) 400ish absorb to all damage types with 15ish seconds refresh tick

if that goes through, our MP pets will be more effective while we are engineers, and we will be able to assist other pet-users (Crats, traders and MPs)

Kind Regards
Ariensky

My favourite: that the pets do not cancel along with mimic, having pets in other professions gives a little boost. Noticeable: yes, OP: no.
With some engi pet-assist auras the very tough (and combined with agents OP) pets are not needed, but would make engi a viable profession to mimic.
Also some of the weaker speciality engi pets might get unlocked for us?

Uhmm bacon wrap, a dream of every agent.

[Esproc]

I am really really hyped about the possibility of -init being dropped from FP, but also concerned about that just making agents be FP trader full time at lower levels.

What would the potential alternative downside be?
Heavier nanocost?
Reduced duration of the nanos? (eww)
???

[Lupusceleri]

Tlatoani: I got ahold of a dev and asked the question, but it seems I'm not allowed to share any further information yet.

Basically, the devs haven't decided yet what exactly they want to do with Aimed Shot and Snipe Shot. And so we wait until the plans solidify.

[Ayria]

And so we wait until the plans solidify.

So this is what its like to wait for paint to dry.