An Agent's future..

[nubbs]

not that it matters to anyone, but 3 second cast AS is utter crap for pvm dd in places like apf where mob would be dead by the time it casts... we would be tabbing to find something alive still the whole time lol

and I can see it now, the lock is going to be "bugged" for the 1st 8-9 months where it locks even if you don't have a target anymore...

[Ctrlaltwin]

Thanks Lupus for the information! I am just struggling to understand it. I hope you can be patient with me, wording is crucial I believe. Hope you can all bare with me here...

[list][*]Aimed Shot: Agents exclusively will get access to a secondary Aimed Shot special, sort of like Backstab. Name will probably be Snipe Shot, and it won't deal more damage than a Burst. I have no other details yet, it's a work in progress.

I totally get a burst like special, but two major concerns pop out.
One - is Snipe shot going to have some foolish principal behind it like backstab?
Two - is AS still going to be an opener? If so, I see agents still slacking on damage massively

[*]Ruse of Taren: size reduction and Concealment buff will be separated, and size reduction can be cancelled at will (about 1 NCU for the -size).

I still thought casting all agent buffs took a while? Now creating two separate lines?

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~Skipped detaunts, bail nanos, DoTs, Snares/roots/stuns (<<homogenized among all profs)~

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I know that list isn't very impressive, however with that out of the way, let's have a look at The Big Revelation (tm) we've been teasing you all about!

The Agent rebalance thingie will have a heavy focus on our Mimic lines. Biggest change, really, would be that we're finally getting to Mimic a form of perks. A form of, because they technically aren't perks, but specializations. The plan is to enable us to Mimic every profession effectively, including Shades and Keepers.

• Shadow Profession: aside from the existing False, Assume, and Mimic Profession lines there will be Shadow Profession for endgame Agents.

• Alright, so agents get PERKS from this mimic. I am trying to understand if SL nanos, possibly better weapons (1h weapons) options, and how changing professions will interact with 'auras' if agents 'shadow profession' runs out. Lastly how different Shadow profession will be. Clarification in all this is huge ^^
  
  

• NanoInit: this particular debuff will be heavily modified on the whole line of nanos, and might even be completely replaced by other debuffs tailored for the Profession you're mimicking.
• Static (de)buffs: there will be static buffs and debuffs attached to each profession you choose to Mimic, for example Mimic NT could give you some %nanodamage and extra MatCrea, at the cost of attack rating. These bonuses scale as you level, until you hit the "upper limit" for your line and pretty much have to move on to the next version to reap higher benefits.

[Ebondevil]

I still thought casting all agent buffs took a while? Now creating two separate lines?

As I understand it, if you cast Ruse of Taren you'll get two nanos in your NCU from it, one with the Concealment buff, the other with the Size modifier, so you can choose to cancel the size modifier if you wish and remain normal size without canceling the Concealment buff.

As for the rest of your questions, you raise some very interesting points, problem is Agents are slated to be last on the reworking, due to the fact our toolset does rely in part on most of the other professions. Until we get more information there's not much we can tell you.

Basically now is a good time to detail what you would like to see or what you would want out of the rebalancing for Agents, if you have any specific issues with anything please raise them.

The more information you give us professionals the more we will be able to relay to the devs.

[Ctrlaltwin]

As I understand it, if you cast Ruse of Taren you'll get two nanos in your NCU from it, one with the Concealment buff, the other with the Size modifier, so you can choose to cancel the size modifier if you wish and remain normal size without canceling the Concealment buff.

As for the rest of your questions, you raise some very interesting points, problem is Agents are slated to be last on the reworking, due to the fact our toolset does rely in part on most of the other professions. Until we get more information there's not much we can tell you.

Basically now is a good time to detail what you would like to see or what you would want out of the rebalancing for Agents, if you have any specific issues with anything please raise them.

The more information you give us professionals the more we will be able to relay to the devs.

Alright, thank you Ebony. I am glad you clarified the Ruse change, makes sense! I was thinking in my head as I posted that some of these changes are so grey that it would be tough to comment on.

What I'd like to see is probably only a fraction of what you agents who know more have already said (feel free to correct to me, agree/disagree, etc), but I'll just throw caution in the wind here and see if it turns up anything interesting:

1. I'd like to see agents have reliable special damage that can be used often, and is important
2. I'd like to see 2h weapons (not just agents) see increased damage to counteract duel wield
OR
3. I'd like to see AT LEAST one other option besides rifle, I know you agents love it. But maybe it IS time for a little change (isn't that what a true agent is about, change?)
4. I'd love to see the new direction of agents let them be specialized in Shadow profession ... i.e. high static defense OR high AR or an advy type approach
5. Shadow profession doesn't have any downside to casting
6. Would love to see Ruse turn agents into some spy form (which can be terminated)

[Cyberleet]

The more information you give us professionals the more we will be able to relay to the devs.

Heya Devil! And news on holo's? ^_^

I'd like to see agents have reliable special damage that can be used often, and is important

Yeah...conceptually agent can suprass any defense and do all kinds of damage.

We can shift damage, we are masters of Aimed Shot, we got dots and other nanodamage, we got damageperks with a diversity of skill-checks so we can adapt and adjust to the opponent and it's on paper a great profession in intention.

Hope to see the functionality of our entire toolset gets improved, cause it looks fun.

Playing with AR/Perception-config for pvp here so I often use the "defense"nanos to escape after stealth-attacks.

[Lupusceleri]

I totally get a burst like special, but two major concerns pop out.
One - is Snipe shot going to have some foolish principal behind it like backstab?
Two - is AS still going to be an opener? If so, I see agents still slacking on damage massively

We simply don't know.

Details are coming "soon (tm)", and have been coming "soon (tm)" for the last 9-10 months.

I still thought casting all agent buffs took a while? Now creating two separate lines?

You cast Ruse of Taren - Phase 4 (one nano). It places two nanos into your NCU: size reduction, and concealment buff. If you don't want to use either one, you cancel that one after buffing up.

Alright, so agents get PERKS from this mimic. I am trying to understand if SL nanos, possibly better weapons (1h weapons) options, and how changing professions will interact with 'auras' if agents 'shadow profession' runs out. Lastly how different Shadow profession will be. Clarification in all this is huge ^^

Clarification is indeed huge.. I'm afraid I don't really understand what you're trying to say.

I think you want to know the difference between Shadow Profession and the existing FP lines?

It's just the next step up.. after False Profession comes Assume Profession, after that Mimic Profession, and last comes Shadow Profession. Similar to the Ruse nanos just going from 1 to 4, each being "better" but the idea being exactly the same.

Essentially whatever profession is mimicked there will be debuffs/utilities that are interactive with said profession (drains for shades, auras for crats, keepers, reflects/dmg for soldier, etc etc) - Hoping I understand that

Nope, a static (de)buff is "just there".

For example:
- Unexpected Attack is a static 120 Rifle buff. It is always there, and can always be kept running.
- Improved Gnat's Wing is a temporary 65 Rifle buff. It isn't always there, and you can't keep it running permanently.
- Form of Tessai is a static 40 Strength buff, but also a static 70 Agility debuff. If you want the extra Strength, you HAVE to trade in some Agility.
- Mimic Profession is a static "profession" buff, but also a static -750 NanoInit and -140 nanoskill debuff. If you want the different profession, you HAVE to trade in some NanoInit and nanoskill.

In the post-balance FP lines, you trade in a certain amount of skill in order to receive a certain amount of another skill.. if you'd elaborate the example given in my original post, it could mean:

Shadow Profession: Nano-Technician
set VisualProfession to NT
- 100 AAO at L220
+ 50 MC at L220
+ 10% NanoDamage at L220

However, the -750 NanoInit we currently sacrifice in order to use another profession's nanos will very likely vanish.

Is that to say that agents will be getting access to completely new nanos/perks/items (hopefully weapons/armor) that are really tailored to making the agent profession truly unique and not just a makeshift doc, makeshift enforcer, makeshift soldier.

Also, the staying true profession seems like a very interesting idea. I never liked leveling my agent and getting the feel I was every other professions...only worse.

Of course I'm not the direct source, but my interpretation was that we'll follow the general direction of the profession we're going to Mimic.

In effect, you'd pick Mimic Bureaucrat, BUT you will still not get access to iHM, CiB, Commanding Presence, Bureaucratic Shuffle, etc.

Instead, you would get something like "Undercover Measures" which won't have the same amount of AAO/AAD as iHM, and which will terminate the second that Mimic Bureaucrat runs out. Or you'd get "Invisible Stance", which won't give exactly the same AAD as Evasive Stance but still buff AAD.

Disclaimer: the examples written up are just random things I thought up in 5 minutes. There's no hint of names, hint of numbers, or even hints as to which things we're going to get mock-up versions of, because the Professionals know just as much as you do: nothing.

[Ctrlaltwin]

First of all...thank you Lupus. Not liking the disclaimer though :P

We simply don't know.

Details are coming "soon (tm)", and have been coming "soon (tm)" for the last 9-10 months.

~Insert Epic information~

Disclaimer: the examples written up are just random things I thought up in 5 minutes. There's no hint of names, hint of numbers, or even hints as to which things we're going to get mock-up versions of, because the Professionals know just as much as you do: nothing.

Cleared up most of my questions, I think there were two parts you didn't quite get to.

1. The possibilities of other weapon perks (variety of weapons) - I feel just rifles isn't enough.
2. Will perks be based on what profession being mimic'd (shade drains, MA init debuffs, enforcer stuns, etc etc)

Quoting you here without quoting it twice... "However, the -750 NanoInit we currently sacrifice in order to use another profession's nanos will very likely vanish."

You think that is key to agents moving forward, having the -750 taken off?

[Ebondevil]

You think that is key to agents moving forward, having the -750 taken off?

I would say that the Init debuff, particularly the -2000 version being removed from the line would be highly beneficial to agents and make more tools from different professions viable over more of the agents levelling lifespan.

As for Perks we should keep our own regardless of our current visual profession, we might get a few extra special actions however which may be based on or visual profession.

[Cyberleet]

I hope we get the FP-nanoline extended, altho I had this idea called Dreadloch Chameleon some time ago.

[Lupusceleri]

First of all...thank you Lupus. Not liking the disclaimer though :P

You'll have to live with it, or someone might get the idea in their head that it's actually what we are going to get.

Cleared up most of my questions, I think there were two parts you didn't quite get to.

1. The possibilities of other weapon perks (variety of weapons) - I feel just rifles isn't enough.
2. Will perks be based on what profession being mimic'd (shade drains, MA init debuffs, enforcer stuns, etc etc)

1. Haven't heard a thing. If there's anything at all pointing in that direction so far, it's already public and probably in the AI perk docs (Ranger line).
2. Yes. They will be based on the profession Mimic'd, which means that for 14 professions (including Agents) there would be 56 perks.

Quoting you here without quoting it twice... "However, the -750 NanoInit we currently sacrifice in order to use another profession's nanos will very likely vanish."

You think that is key to agents moving forward, having the -750 taken off?

That's one of the changes the devs will very likely make. As Ebondevil mentioned, not just the -750, but also the -2000 on False Profession will probably see some nerfing.. the result of all that is Agents becoming Agents a lot sooner than now (you are stuck with slow casting until you reach Mimic, severely limiting your options).

Personally I think the nanoinit debuff vanishing will mean a big step forward for Agents. Won't solve everything of course, but for starters it will make us a lot less vulnerable to init debuffs (our Achilles' heel right now due to this permanent debuff). And that's a good thing.

[Ctrlaltwin]

You'll have to live with it, or someone might get the idea in their head that it's actually what we are going to get.

<<
Now who would get that idea? :P

1. Haven't heard a thing. If there's anything at all pointing in that direction so far, it's already public and probably in the AI perk docs (Ranger line).
2. Yes. They will be based on the profession Mimic'd, which means that for 14 professions (including Agents) there would be 56 perks.

1. I'd like to see one of the duel wield weapon lines up OR rifles seeing a huge boost in min/max damage
2. Thanks, clears it up

That's one of the changes the devs will very likely make. As Ebondevil mentioned, not just the -750, but also the -2000 on False Profession will probably see some nerfing.. the result of all that is Agents becoming Agents a lot sooner than now (you are stuck with slow casting until you reach Mimic, severely limiting your options).

With a Infused Viral Compiler, do you IP much into nanoc. init?

I never realized how much benefit TL 3-6 could see from these changes to FP.

Personally I think the nanoinit debuff vanishing will mean a big step forward for Agents. Won't solve everything of course, but for starters it will make us a lot less vulnerable to init debuffs (our Achilles' heel right now due to this permanent debuff). And that's a good thing.

I was thinking that was just one of agents achilles' heel... some of which are hurting even more then that ^^

I hope this isn't off subject much, and I can see it is in the "wish list" ...but WHY OH WHY is this ARTILLERY profession doing the one of the worst damage outputs! I mean that sounds almost vomit worthy...really hope you are pushing harder then ever Lupus for SOME kind of change!

[Cyberleet]

With a Infused Viral Compiler, do you IP much into nanoc. init?

When we can use mimic most start to IP nanoinit, maxing it. Can cast most our nanos instant on full def

[Lupusceleri]

1. I'd like to see one of the duel wield weapon lines up OR rifles seeing a huge boost in min/max damage

Dunno, why would Agents have to go away from the Rifles we already have support for (or Bows which we have limited support for)? I have zero desire to become, say, yet another Pistol profession.

You're definitely not alone with the desired increase on Rifle damage though. We will keep on nagging at Funcom about that one, when it comes up.

With a Infused Viral Compiler, do you IP much into nanoc. init?

I never realized how much benefit TL 3-6 could see from these changes to FP.

Max max max max max, did I mention max? At TL7 you'll top out around 1500-1700 selfed nanoinit with Instinctive Control, depending on your setup. That's barely enough to insta-cast big nanos such as Complete Healing on full def, and still too low to insta-cast absorbs from Mimic NT/Enf for example.

Besides even if you don't "need" the last few points because you are insta-casting anyhow, it's still good to have in case something hits you with an initdebuff in PvP. Which will be OFTEN.

Professions with access to reliable init debuffs: Agent, Bureaucrat, Doctor, Enforcer, Martial Artist, Meta-Physicist, Nano-Technician.
Professions with access to unreliable init debuffs: Shade.

I was thinking that was just one of agents achilles' heel... some of which are hurting even more then that ^^

Well yeah we have an unfunny amount of Achilles' heels, but I would say taking out the NanoInit problems solves a lot more than patching up most other Achilles' heels would (and even for other Mimics than Doctor, Letah). And that's just talking TL7 where it won't be felt "as much", it will be a gigantic boost to lower levels.

I hope this isn't off subject much, and I can see it is in the "wish list" ...but WHY OH WHY is this ARTILLERY profession doing the one of the worst damage outputs! I mean that sounds almost vomit worthy...really hope you are pushing harder then ever Lupus for SOME kind of change!

They (as in the devs) are focusing on other stuff right now so I don't think we can expect any short-term resolutions, but if the topic comes up in the rebalance Ebondevil and myself will be nagging at them.

Btw out of curiosity, who is your Agent and are you still leveling? Would help with finding solutions to stuff.

[Esproc]

I was interested in the possibility of a pistol agent before the AS pistol and the 80% perks, but now I pretty much share the sentiment you have there Lupu.

It basically put the brakes on the agent I was working on leveling :/
Now I've been trying to decide on some sneak attack focused setup but I just can't find the muse for it.

I am greatly excited about the possibility of the nano init de-buff going poof, well that's a vast understatement.
I cannot express the level of joy such a concept inspires.

Wait don't pop the bubble yet! Let me float just a little longer...


PS:
With the scale mod being separate from concealment couldn't you just cancel the concealment part then and keep the -scale for 1 ncu? ^^

[Ebondevil]

PS:
With the scale mod being separate from concealment couldn't you just cancel the concealment part then and keep the -scale for 1 ncu? ^^

In theory, Yes.


See Lletah, there are some RP/Fun elements to the rebalancing ^^

It's not all about Holograms!

[Ctrlaltwin]

Btw out of curiosity, who is your Agent and are you still leveling? Would help with finding solutions to stuff.

Thanks for asking Lupus, Tharss4 on RK2. I am stripped right now (gave up on agents). I am thinking of releveling him. What armor should I go with? And is artillery symbiants better then nano delta implants for leveling?

I was interested in the possibility of a pistol agent before the AS pistol and the 80% perks, but now I pretty much share the sentiment you have there Lupu.

I was trying to find a way to suggest giving agents pistol perks without coming out with it directly. I know for a fact Soldiers are fighting the idea, I could only imagine how much worse it is for agents.

Ranged Energy, SMG would be possibilities?

[ArienSky]

1. The possibilities of other weapon perks (variety of weapons) - I feel just rifles isn't enough.

1. I'd like to see one of the duel wield weapon lines up OR rifles seeing a huge boost in min/max damage

Yes I would like a change too.
Slow, but HARD (crit) hitting weapons rifles..
..sadly right now that means low AS recharge too.
it would be great(for me) that you could have slow recharge, but hard hit, without sacrificing AS.

Then bows would be the fast-hitting alternative, with lower hits each time, and shorter range.

But currently Bow is a crappy alternative, with the balancing you can use all the perks with it though, so it will be better at least.

Kind Regards
-Ariensky

PS. Rifle range up to 200 meters -at least- please, 50 meters is not ranged.. RL bows fire longer.

[Ebondevil]

I was trying to find a way to suggest giving agents pistol perks without coming out with it directly. I know for a fact Soldiers are fighting the idea, I could only imagine how much worse it is for agents.

Currently Pistol is one of the better supported options for Agents as an alternative weapon.

With the incoming Perk changes, even without access to Pistol mastery Perks, it's likely to get better from what we've seen as the only Rifle Only Perks will be the ones from Infantry, The rest of the Agent perks should be usable with Pistols.

Even now pistols are a somewhat viable alternative, all the buffs agents have available make it possible, and allow agents to keep AS even.

But then everyone seems to use pistols these days so it feels rather like jumping on the bandwagon as it were.

Personally I don't think Agents going Pistol is a very good idea, but if it is a popular one I shall push for it more.

[Ctrlaltwin]

Would first like to say the players on the agent forum are some of the coolest so far, have yet to see really any trolls. I was thinking maybe the trolls go for OP flavor of the months...

Yes I would like a change too.
Slow, but HARD (crit) hitting weapons rifles..
..sadly right now that means low AS recharge too.
it would be great(for me) that you could have slow recharge, but hard hit, without sacrificing AS.

Then bows would be the fast-hitting alternative, with lower hits each time, and shorter range.

But currently Bow is a crappy alternative, with the balancing you can use all the perks with it though, so it will be better at least.

Kind Regards
-Ariensky

PS. Rifle range up to 200 meters -at least- please, 50 meters is not ranged.. RL bows fire longer.

Rifles I'd say up to 100 meters for RELIABLE hits. Bows I'd say 30-40 meters for RELIABLE hits.

We are talking about the average Joe with some training, not a marksman who is the most deadly sharpshooter in the Eastern/Western Hemisphere. But you or I could do 30-40 solid with training, or about 100M with an accurate rifle.

Either way, I bump your idea of making 2H ranged weapons...stronger range. Give a slight edge in DPS to pistols and such, but give rifles/assault rifles more range, and shotguns chance of double/triple damage (multiple bullets). Creative? Maybe...

Currently Pistol is one of the better supported options for Agents as an alternative weapon.

With the incoming Perk changes, even without access to Pistol mastery Perks, it's likely to get better from what we've seen as the only Rifle Only Perks will be the ones from Infantry, The rest of the Agent perks should be usable with Pistols.

Even now pistols are a somewhat viable alternative, all the buffs agents have available make it possible, and allow agents to keep AS even.

But then everyone seems to use pistols these days so it feels rather like jumping on the bandwagon as it were.

Personally I don't think Agents going Pistol is a very good idea, but if it is a popular one I shall push for it more.

I am on the fence Ebon, as I would be willing to bet the majority of agents do NOT support going with pistols.

On the other hand, as said above with ArienSky and myself...alternatives need to be made.

Make ranged weapons have REALISTIC components.

Ranged energy - some sort of nano damage
Pistols - some sort of damage proc
Shotgun - multiple bullets on a 5/10% chance
Rifles - increased range, chance of higher crit multiplier (wouldn't that fix DPM?)

Trying to avoid going off the subject too much, but I am trying to show that Agent's are in a critical stage...and I know you (ebon, marine, lupus, Lletah, Esproc, etc etc) are a lot more knowledgeable about agents. I just think there are SO many positive ways to spin agents, but it is also crucial to know spinning them left or right could mean them still being broken, they need to be pushed in a whole new direction at TL7.

Things like stronger crits, better procs, spammable AS/snipe shot, ALL weapons having unique components to them (including rifles) etc are key to getting agents back on track.

~Clouded in silence. Hidden from view.~

Time to break to silence and let it be known to all :P

[Esproc]

Don't count me there, I drag the list down

I count myself as one sincerely interested in open discussion, when I'm wrong I really am interested to learn and improve.
And my views are sometimes fickle as I gain new perspectives, though my main focus is always on enjoying what I'm doing.