Friday with Means - October 9th, 2009 - Parry and Riposte - Back from the dead!

[Wrangeline]

Multi-motor reflection sorting!

Use the deflector dish!! It's the answer to everything when the script writers run out of ideas!

[Klod9000]

Use the deflector dish!! It's the answer to everything when the script writers run out of ideas!

I have that.

[cratters]

Righto

First off, I didn't bother reading through the rest of the thread As such, I don't really expect a reply, except it does seem Means is the only person who actually bothers sifting through multiple pages of 'FIRST' and 'LOL FIX GAME' , so odds are, he might read this one

Parry and riposte.

While the general idea seems nice; making use of currently useless ip sinks, there's an issue I'd like to bring up here.

How on earth will this actually go along your goals of balancing things?

Currently, of the professions who would benefit from this are keepers, MAs, advies and shades.

Enforcers and adventurers are, in terms of PvP balance, OP. Simple as that. They are topping every conceivable list of viability. Keepers are lacking, as are shades (albeit horribly more so), due to their perk-dependant nature. Something parry/riposte won't change. MAs are also left behind, and to be frank, I only see them as a good reason to put parry/riposte back into the game.

What exactly are you trying to achieve with this change? The way you mention it here, it doesn't seem to be part of any larger picture, but rather a nice little project one of your devs decided to fiddle with You mentioned rather straightforward mentioned that ranged advies are currently way too high up there. Any significant advantage to melee advies would put them even beyond their ranged counterparts, along with enfs, while still leaving everyone, bar MAs, in the state they are currently in. (keepers/shades won't be fixed by this. they will remain suffering any down and upsides that comes with being perk-dependant)

Could just be I'm reading to much out of this. But when most people were expecting more on balancing, you are writing your post around buffing melee toons. A frightful thought indeed, since these are the people who are instasplatting us already. The way it's described here, it seems to be another nice little treat, rather than the grand changes that keep being mentioned. Basically, more 'polishing of turds'

Balancing PvP, as I see it, should be done through studying professions, and giving them what they need. Not by throwing new toys at entire categories of professions, holding both the most OP'd class, and the most gimped one.

Anyway, you forgot about assigning useful features to Psychology. (Can't make any post without demanding crat buffs, now can I?)

[Tazalanche]

wtb: Sex change

tmi!

[Ellarisa]

interesting stuff, not sure what i think about parry though, i guess it depends on how much it blocks, for how long and its recharge.
riposte looks interesting.
mail system looks quite nice ^^

my weekly question:
so how bout them professionals?

Greetings,



Ellarisa

[haxi]

Parry and Riposte raise from the dead to consume even more development time and energy. Much cleaner to remove them from game. Refund the spent IP, remove them as item requirements. Bury them in an unmarked grave.

[Boltgun]

I for one totally see a ma pushing away a gun and using the opportunity to land a good attack. This being happening because the ranged fighter ended in melee range.

Ranged range, I can't see this. I know their hands are on fire, but it's still hard to swallow, plus that puts high tech weaponry in the same range of a crowbar. You'll stop plasma with a crowbar ?

The idea is worth developping entirely but it needs a cool visual, or it will be another awkward AO mechanic.

At least I'm happy that these broken skills are getting attention.

[Jenshey]

Just incase no one has done it yet, the contents of the message mean:

"Sed ut per****iatis unde omnis iste natus error sit voluptatem accusantium doloremque laudantium, totam rem aperiam, eaque ipsa quae ab illo inventore veritatis et quasi architecto beatae vitae dicta sunt explicabo. Nemo enim ipsam voluptatem quia voluptas sit aspernatur aut odit aut fugit, sed quia consequuntur magni dolores eos qui ratione voluptatem sequi nesciunt. Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non numquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem. Ut enim ad minima veniam, quis nostrum exercitationem ullam corporis suscipit laboriosam, nisi ut aliquid ex ea commodi consequatur? Quis autem vel eum iure reprehenderit qui in ea voluptate velit esse quam nihil molestiae consequatur, vel illum qui dolorem eum fugiat quo voluptas nulla pariatur?"

1914 translation by H. Rackham

"But I must explain to you how all this mistaken idea of denouncing pleasure and praising pain was born and I will give you a complete account of the system, and expound the actual teachings of the great explorer of the truth, the master-builder of human happiness. No one rejects, dislikes, or avoids pleasure itself, because it is pleasure, but because those who do not know how to pursue pleasure rationally encounter consequences that are extremely painful. Nor again is there anyone who loves or pursues or desires to obtain pain of itself, because it is pain, but because occasionally circumstances occur in which toil and pain can procure him some great pleasure. To take a trivial example, which of us ever undertakes laborious physical exercise, except to obtain some advantage from it? But who has any right to find fault with a man who chooses to enjoy a pleasure that has no annoying consequences, or one who avoids a pain that produces no resultant pleasure?"

"At vero eos et accusamus et iusto odio dignissimos ducimus qui blanditiis praesentium voluptatum deleniti atque corrupti quos dolores et quas molestias excepturi sint occaecati cupiditate non provident, similique sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollitia animi, id est laborum et dolorum fuga. Et harum quidem rerum facilis est et expedita distinctio. Nam libero tempore, cum soluta nobis est eligendi optio cumque nihil impedit quo minus id quod maxime placeat facere possimus, omnis voluptas assumenda est, omnis dolor repellendus. Temporibus autem quibusdam et aut officiis debitis aut rerum necessitatibus saepe eveniet ut et voluptates repudiandae sint et molestiae non recusandae. Itaque earum rerum hic tenetur a sapiente delectus, ut aut reiciendis voluptatibus maiores alias consequatur aut perferendis doloribus asperiores repellat."

"On the other hand, we denounce with righteous indignation and dislike men who are so beguiled and demoralized by the charms of pleasure of the moment, so blinded by desire, that they cannot foresee the pain and trouble that are bound to ensue; and equal blame belongs to those who fail in their duty through weakness of will, which is the same as saying through shrinking from toil and pain. These cases are perfectly simple and easy to distinguish. In a free hour, when our power of choice is untrammelled and when nothing prevents our being able to do what we like best, every pleasure is to be welcomed and every pain avoided. But in certain circumstances and owing to the claims of duty or the obligations of business it will frequently occur that pleasures have to be repudiated and annoyances accepted. The wise man therefore always holds in these matters to this principle of selection: he rejects pleasures to secure other greater pleasures, or else he endures pains to avoid worse pains."

Wait, that doesn't look right at all ... hold on ...

Never mind, that is the full text. Was wondering why some of the start was not matching up to the meaning of the contents of the message.

Next edit:

Of course. If melee's can catch bullets with their hands, then I should be able to side step every single hit they try to do with melee weapons seeing as melee is 1000 times slower than a bullet.

The melee weapons are moving at the speed that is stopping the bullets.

[Gunfytr]

Good stuff. Now I'm on the hunt for a low lvl melee wep to swap to for AMS down time.

[Poufpaf]

If riposte activates only when you get hit, and for a very short time, evade professions will get it very seldom though. And will probably have something else to do when they get hit than checking if riposte action is up. There might need some balancing to do in order to make it equally effective for all melee professions, just a thought here.

[Neccoz]

Can we have a Q&A planned anytime soon? And one that will be announced, not just random. I have a few questions that I'd like answered, but I am always like on 6th page when I see it.

[Swordbreaker]

Interesting. I love the in-game mail. GG. Now you just need to upgrade it so you can transfer items and credits with it.

Just pitching in to say that that's exactly what the screenshot was showing off, a mail in which an item was being transfered with what looks like a price tag on it. I guess you can also put CREDZ in it rather than just selling stuff to others.

[Gastastic]

It will be interesting to see how many melee people/professions raise their parry and/or riposte skill seeing as they would have to remove IP from something else in order to get it.

I'm prepared to drop the 'heavy weapons' I raised on my MA for BS rocket launchers to empower Parry/Riposte.

Parry/Riposte!!!! Woohooo!!! Non-retarded MA love!!!! 2 eyes, 10 fingers, 10 toes and Parry/Riposte!!!

Nice. Very nice. I gave up on that 4 years ago. Impressive. Sounds fun, interesting, and game enhancing (after tweakage) across the board.

The mail system sounds very cool too. Handy for all our alts.

Now we need Pumpkinhead.

And to translate the latin from that window. You know we got to.

PS: Others beat me to the translation thing.

[DecemberSky]

Is the cyberdeck a melee weapon, Means? =) =) =)

[trousers]

Ooo Ooo Another Ranged Riposte Example!

[trousers]

And to translate the latin from that window. You know we got to.

"Lorem Ipsum is simply dummy text of the printing and typesetting industry"

Contrary to popular belief, Lorem Ipsum is not simply random text. It has roots in a piece of classical Latin literature from 45 BC, making it over 2000 years old. Richard McClintock, a Latin professor at Hampden-Sydney College in Virginia, looked up one of the more obscure Latin words, consectetur, from a Lorem Ipsum passage, and going through the cites of the word in classical literature, discovered the undoubtable source. Lorem Ipsum comes from sections 1.10.32 and 1.10.33 of "de Finibus Bonorum et Malorum" (The Extremes of Good and Evil) by Cicero, written in 45 BC. This book is a treatise on the theory of ethics, very popular during the Renaissance. The first line of Lorem Ipsum, "Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet..", comes from a line in section 1.10.32.

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Aenean mi nunc, blandit et auctor eu, lobortis et tellus. Nullam pretium, dui id scelerisque ullamcorper, nulla neque porttitor nunc, sit amet aliquam libero justo sit amet quam. Ut pharetra tempor justo quis gravida. Nam pellentesque molestie felis, nec malesuada nunc dignissim placerat. Nulla vitae congue turpis. Fusce consectetur, quam eu egestas mollis, quam magna laoreet ligula, dignissim pulvinar mauris urna non tortor. Sed tincidunt viverra purus, eu sodales nisi porttitor consequat. Curabitur eget neque non lectus hendrerit elementum at blandit eros. Class aptent taciti sociosqu ad litora torquent per conubia nostra, per inceptos himenaeos. Sed in nisl sagittis erat molestie tempor non id ligula. Vestibulum ut ipsum ante. Nullam facilisis urna faucibus eros feugiat fringilla. Phasellus nisl turpis, ultricies quis tempor sit amet, venenatis sed leo.

coincidentally, the actual translation is what will open the Chest In the Crypt of Home.

[Perseus]

I had hopes this week for us being able to share the plans for ALL perks and actions accross all professions this week. Unfortunately it isn't going to happen as we really feel we need to make the ENTIRE plan concerning research, perks, nanos and other changes available at the same time or the changes to perks will only be taken out of context...and a source of MORE questions and argument as opposed to LESS. There are still some details we are fighting about...if we can't agree yet it isn't ready.

Cheers Means, you just won me $20 and a long beer filled lunch. Couple of mates were really excited about this weeks FWM and that document. I bet $20 and lunch respectively that it would be delayed.

[Gastastic]

Lorem itself pain he is amet consectetur to come up to elit. Vivamus dust euismod how or annoyance. Upon eget magna he is amet skirmish mattis according to reason. For this some fear. Nulla bow was , lamentation and not laoreet he is amet , some and diam. Mauris or pregnant nisl. Up to the time when or is to hate , upon tincidunt pain. Vestibulum but first principle unseemly. Now price skirmish when pain concern egastas mattis and dui. Sickness volutpat crime rhoncus. Eneus or tortor lion eget fermentum worthless. Fusce word a hollow or mi first principle mattis he is amet and not mi. Now but equity lucky , life crime skirmish. Upon this fear and lucky eleifend to congeal and not to soften elit. Fusce when prefix meaning half- and not equity carry carry good but itself. Vestibulum before itself first upon faucibus orci lamentation and avenging poseuere bed Management ; Up to the time when mauris bed , seneschal but laoreet not , person responsible good mi. Eneus blandishments transitory to set free , upon always diam to make fit not. When laoreet if not and magna to extreme poverty ullamcorpor dust mi rhoncus. Each one carry easy eros he is amet to extreme poverty. But rhoncuefornare person responsible.

Now what does that mean?

PS: NM, see above.

[Odov]

Cheers Means, you just won me $20 and a long beer filled lunch. Couple of mates were really excited about this weeks FWM and that document. I bet $20 and lunch respectively that it would be delayed.

win

[Ayria]

Pssssst. It's SCI FI.

I love this argument.

"Hey look there's this totally unreasonable and unrealistic aspect of the game but it's alright, we're Sci Fi, and look over there, another unreasonable and unrealistic aspect of the game NERF ITT!!!"

If you want to stick behind this "It's Sci Fi" argument that suddenly discontinues the need for physics to exist then so can everyone else. You want to claim that MAs can pluck a bullet out of the air using Sci Fi as the excuse then I'm sure we can get away with 2000m range on Agents rifles for example. We should be able to AS you from the ground while you're in BS using bullets with small engines and guidance systems.

Am I saying that Parry and Riposte shouldn't be fixed? Of course not, I'm just trying to illustrate the absurdity of this kind of argument.