Friday with Means - October 9th, 2009 - Parry and Riposte - Back from the dead!

[Mereditche]

How dare you expect grown men and women to act like adults.

We 'act' like adults in RL, we play games to act normal once in a while. We really just want to hit each other on the head with a big bone, but since society doesn't approve of such conduct anymore, we're forced to fulfill our primal urges in-game.

[Anarrina]

So, you can imagine my absolute joy about being repeatedly woken from much needed rest by emails sent to my cell phone generated by highly justified complaints about the level of personal attacks in this thread.

Gee. So many cry babies in this thread.

Yes, I know. Moderators are the nerfest. Fix plz...

[Lupusceleri]

Sorry to hear you were sick Ana. Hope it is better already.

So, you can imagine my absolute joy about being repeatedly woken from much needed rest by emails sent to my cell phone generated by highly justified complaints about the level of personal attacks in this thread.

Just turn the thing off already. From what I heard ARK is volunteer work, and not a paid job. I'm sure that whoever your boss is can understand it if you want to sleep, or are unable to moderate because of sickness, or because of a dead internet connection.

[Xenotric]

We all know you secretly love moderating so giving you moderation to do is our way of <3ing you

[Klod9000]

Yes, I know. Moderators are the nerfest. Fix plz...

I meant the people who were complaining.

[vallikat]

I say we go back to focussing on the good.

I just found out that I am not going away on the weekend of the 23rd which means I will be home for the opening of The Grind. Now of course I know that was from last FWM, but I'm so done with that thread. Besides this thread needs more love.

[Superflare]

last! I read this just now, and im so pleased with where AO is going atm.

[Swordbreaker]

I'm just waiting for the balancing act to come in so I can see what I'll do with my Engineer next!

Can I stay with AS or will I go Combat Remod?! THE SUSPENSE IS KILLING ME!

[Jenshey]

nice diagram... but I can honestly say I have never used that move in combat... I prefer the knock the blade to the side and up then rotate the blade and slash the gut move ..... spilling the guts type of move.... since all the refereed forms of sword fighting would disable your arm even for a small hit I have always chosen to drive the blade away with force and then attack... but that is style more than function and that diagram is a good example of a parry/riposte with 2h weapon. though I still think the number of those moves is far less with 2h than with 1h. thus the original question of why is parry/riposte most present on 2h weapons vice 1h weapons in the game.

Okay, clearly there are a few things you have alluded to. The swords in AO are so big they are compensating for something. Thus they just wouldn't manage both, being far too unwieldy. Never sacrifices speed for weight, size or anything else you can think of. I can't honestly think of any move a one handed sword can do that a two handed can't. Maybe you need to stretch your wrists or something?

Oh and so long as you can block or deflect your opponents two handed sword with one of yours, two one handed ones are like having someone flanking your opponent.

[Wakizaka]

So anxious, so eager, so full of vim and vigor.

No worries, young ones - I'll be changing that soon enough... Hehehehehahahahaha!

Emacs > Vim


I just had to put that out there...

[shadowgod]

Emacs > Vim


I just had to put that out there...

you only say that cause emacs is a way of life, and vim is just barely a text editor.

[merranvo]

You must have come from the same school of though as my bosses, who recently decided we've got to "re-focus, re-design, and re-brand" our 500+ page website in 2.5 months...oh and we don't' have an new direction yet...and the devs will be gone 3 of those weeks.

Well, if you have a HTML website, sure. But if you have a PHP website I'd doubt it'd take more than a few hours to change things around (Of course you may get unaccessable pages and dead links... in the new arrangment... but there are IDE's to help with that stuff.) After all, with PHP you have all the content there and ready to go, the PHP Scripts supply the interface, and as long as FC isn't changing the framework there should be no reason what-so-ever that they can't update their website... (Of course, if you didn't fully modularized the php scripts things could get difficult.) [Note: I may or may not know the proper terminology, and may or may not know WTH I'm talking about... best just to /ignore me]

nice diagram... but I can honestly say I have never used that move in combat... I prefer the knock the blade to the side and up then rotate the blade and slash the gut move ..... spilling the guts type of move.... since all the refereed forms of sword fighting would disable your arm even for a small hit I have always chosen to drive the blade away with force and then attack... but that is style more than function and that diagram is a good example of a parry/riposte with 2h weapon. though I still think the number of those moves is far less with 2h than with 1h. thus the original question of why is parry/riposte most present on 2h weapons vice 1h weapons in the game.

I have no faith in you all knowing proper sword fighting technique. Hell, "I" don't even know proper sword fighting technique, but it's easy enough to tell the good from the bad.


With the disembowelment type move, that’s just stylized anime. Consider, for you to "brush" your opponents sword aside, he or she will have to be in a "forward attack" (as opposed to side... it should be obvious) AND, your opponent will have to be swinging downward from a raised position. (May have misused forward attack). I don't believe any other attack position leaves the vulnerability that you wish to exploit open (that is, clear line across the stomach).

Now I understand the stylized swordplay, the "brute force"... but again, that’s not practical. If you're going to provide enough force to knock your opponents sword out of the way, you may as well attack while doing so, disembowel your opponent WHILE blowing the sword away because if you FAIL to move your opponents sword you're wide open for a counter-attack, it’s a simple fact... if you punch someone in the face, you can't KEEP punching [after you punched], you have to pull back to punch again... but you attacked to knock the sword away, if you fail your opponent has her sword in a defense position, but can still go to offense while you have to pull back very quickly to get back in defense.

ALLL that aside, you still have the problem that even after knocking your opponent’s sword aside, unless you break his or her grip she or he can STILL attack you... you'll probably begin your disembowelment first but....

Either way, you can still disembowel your opponent, but you want to do it BEFORE her attack, the "pre-attack" if you will... the time when your opponent is raising his or her sword thus exposing the belly, without giving power to the sword. (Furthermore, since the opponent is not attacking at the time, you can quickly go to defensive BEFORE the attack [as opposed to trying to go defensive during it].

Just clarifying, good posture places the blade in the center of the body, parallel to the body, one handed MIGHT go slanted... but there is no reason to fight one handed if you're not fencing (or with two blades but I assume you pictured just one bladed fighting) (basically, if you fight two handed, your opponent should fight two handed, be it with two swords or one sword in two hands)... and unless you fight with one sword in two hands you'll have trouble getting enough power to knock that sword...

You know, now that I think of it... I don't believe that a person, even fighting one handed against you... would keep their wrist locked... sword play should be fluid, lock your wrist on attack or defense, but not before. (Should you even lock?)

All this still assumes you have a decent opponent, pulling back for an attack like this leaves you open, even after executing it. AND it is still better to turn your... stylish attack into a straight forward attack disemboweling and brushing the sword asside at the same time.

BAHH, you're the ones who brought swordplay into it... I'm just being a little psychopath.

Okay, clearly there are a few things you have alluded to. The swords in AO are so big they are compensating for something. Thus they just wouldn't manage both, being far too unwieldy. Never sacrifices speed for weight, size or anything else you can think of. I can't honestly think of any move a one handed sword can do that a two handed can't. Maybe you need to stretch your wrists or something?

Oh and so long as you can block or deflect your opponents two handed sword with one of yours, two one handed ones are like having someone flanking your opponent.

One handed sword fighting allows jabs, two handed seems more slashing oriented. (Technically, you can slash one handed, but it will be weaker than a two handed slash... what you really want to use is a knife, a sword is just too long to be an effective one handed slash weapon)

And don't go pulling "Nanotech"... we all know that AO swords have a REQUIREMENT of 2h Edged or 1h Edged. And if you need two hands to operate a sword you can't just let go and start jabbing... If you do, you'll be over equipping and thus have much less damage and, in reality, may even drop the sword.


No idea where flanking comes in from defense. Less you're implying dual wielding swords... although I do press that you should use both swords in defense against a person using a two handed sword... unless you support yourself against something else... or have a shield, one sword isn't going to work against a two handed slash attack. (You'll actually be quite likely to break your wrist.

Of course, you COULD do it... you have to defend with the hilt instead of the sword... but remember that your wrist will bear the majority of the blow, NOT your arm. (Well, again, unless you defend with the cuff (if equip) that protects your fingers... THEN the force is directed DOWN your arm. [Of course, the sword will probably slip after hitting the smooth surface so try to deflect while doing that (iow, don't let your opponent cut your arm off)]


Again, bahh... /ignore crazy person

[Wakizaka]

you only say that cause emacs is a way of life, and vim is just barely a text editor.

Bow to the Emacs GNU programmers with their Santa like beards and eternal knowledge of signal handling.

[ninor]

Looking at the amount of whines and general posts in this thread in such a short time I think AO is coming out of a depression =)

Guess i gonna be busy on my MA once i reactivate her for the new engine....

[trousers]

Yes, I know. Moderators are the nerfest. Fix plz...

I had no idea that all Mods were Enforcers. This is good to know!

[Axtilmor]

Bow to the Emacs GNU programmers with their Santa like beards and eternal knowledge of signal handling.

*Ahem* don't you mean GNU Emacs, not Emacs GNU? Hand in your beard at the door.

[Jenshey]

So this week has been interesting. I managed to drag myself over to the Test Server for the first time in ages. Things have really changed there. I highly recommend that if you want to do some cool things, hang out and improve the game to swing by there. Character transfers are an option. I have rolled a new toon and hope to keep levelling it where I have time.

Those discussions with developers? You can do it there, just means a lot of camping ICC. However, besides how empty it is, if my org dies again, I am going there!

Oh and we got the new patch this week, had a look at some of the things that are being offered, I recommend canceling your plans, this is going to be one wild Halloween party. Might want to take a week off farming while you are at it.

This post would really rock if Means would turn it into a thread and do first reply with, "'First!' is for losers," then go on to do his normal talk on what is happening. Unless I covered it already....

[Suicidal]

I'm glad you liked testlive (did you go after I asked you if you have been on test? :P)
About having a chat with developers, many of them hang around on test and unless you start to annoy them with stuff, they don't bite.. and they know how to use chat

[Rktim]

FRIDAAAAAAAAAAAY! Geif list so i know if i should re-activate or not, catgirl pics would work also tho -.^

[Ebondevil]

FRIDAAAAAAAAAAAY! Geif list so i know if i should re-activate or not, catgirl pics would work also tho -.^

Catgirls are, or were, on test already, go check them out :-P