Friday with Means - October 9th, 2009 - Parry and Riposte - Back from the dead!

[styles999]

Button mashing by kids with ADD ftw!

Debump to Parry/Riposte. Fix what's broken for my toons first!! before introducing a new layer of complexity to game mechanics.

fixed for ya

[Ebondevil]

Well, for people like you, let me rephrase: FC better fix what's broken and part of the game rather than what's broken and not part of the game.

Both Parry and Riposte are broken and both are part of the game, not only do they have numerous buffs spanning multiple professions but they are requirements on a number of weapons. To be honest I applaud Kintaii for not giving up on them and getting them to a state where they could be fixed.

[zartosht]

Both Parry and Riposte are broken and both are part of the game, not only do they have numerous buffs spanning multiple professions but they are requirements on a number of weapons. To be honest I applaud Kintaii for not giving up on them and getting them to a state where they could be fixed.

I know that they are a wielding requirements on some weapons and that they can be buffed. But they never produced any active effect, at least not since I play, and were therefore commonly accepted as a pure IP sink.

Introducing new effects is a waste of time (Kintaii could work on something else) and will have unforeseen unbalancing effects that are the last thing this game needs as we speak. It is better to focus on existing game mechanics.

[Neuromotor]

Introducing new effects is a waste of time (Kintaii could work on something else) and will have unforeseen unbalancing effects that are the last thing this game needs as we speak. It is better to focus on existing game mechanics.

With the upcoming rebalancing this seems like the proper time (now or never ) to bring them back, the changes is definitely something that needs to be accounted for if trying to achive some kind of balance.
Adding them at some later point could potentially skewer a lot of what's in the works now.

[Ebondevil]

I know that they are a wielding requirements on some weapons and that they can be buffed. But they never produced any active effect, at least not since I play, and were therefore commonly accepted as a pure IP sink.

They did however produce an active effect at one point but it was removed because it was broken, along with things like fall damage, Means has claimed in the past that he's going to be looking into some of the older issues that AO has and try to tackle them instead of sweeping them under the rug like previous GD's before him. Parry and Riposte are one of these older issues, just because you never had any direct experience with them does not mean they shouldn't be fixed and the fact that all they currently are is an IP sink is all the more reason why they should be fixed.

[Tanana]

With the upcoming rebalancing this seems like the proper time (now or never ) to bring them back, the changes is definitely something that needs to be accounted for if trying to achive some kind of balance.
Adding them at some later point could potentially skewer a lot of what's in the works now.

Yep, all of this.

Bringing them back now while the balancing is happening is the only way to keep these stats in game. It's either sort them out now and deal with the issues as part of the re-balancing or just plain remove the stats alltogether.

Personally I'd go for removing the stats all together but thats a silly point of view given that I've never had the chance to use parry/riposte in it's new form, so lets give it a chance and comment when it's out for testing.

[zartosht]

Personally I'd go for removing the stats all together...

Bump to this.

[Mereditche]

I'm with zartosht on this one. Adding completely new stuff of which noone can foresee the consequences, can't really be beneficiel to the whole balancing exercise.

However, since I believe this whole balancing exercise is a fiasco, which shouldn't have been started in the first place, I don't really care and look forward to try parry/riposte on my toons that can use em. Surely souns slightly OP. Nice!

[omegahealer]

bump for the parry/riposte fix, it will add some new flavour

Zartosht, you only make yourself look dumb by quoting things out of context, because the person you quote said alot more
"but thats a silly point of view given that I've never had the chance to use parry/riposte in it's new form, so lets give it a chance and comment when it's out for testing."
Changes the meaning doesn't it.

Mereditche, it's better to let them balance with the new mechanics in the back of their mind and see how it works out. Instead of balancing and then adding the mechanics (and possible OPing them)

Aethyrguard <3 my new hero

[Aethyrguard]

bump for the parry/riposte fix, it will add some new flavour

zartosht, you only make yourself look dumb by quoting things out of context, because the person you quote said alot more
"but thats a silly point of view given that i've never had the chance to use parry/riposte in it's new form, so lets give it a chance and comment when it's out for testing."
changes the meaning doesn't it.

Mereditche, it's better to let them balance with the new mechanics in the back of their mind and see how it works out. Instead of balancing and then adding the mechanics (and possible oping them)

aethyrguard <3 my new hero

<3

[Mastablasta]

I'm with zartosht on this one. Adding completely new stuff of which noone can foresee the consequences, can't really be beneficiel to the whole balancing exercise.

However, since I believe this whole balancing exercise is a fiasco, which shouldn't have been started in the first place, I don't really care and look forward to try parry/riposte on my toons that can use em. Surely souns slightly OP. Nice!

Could it be that it's PART of the whole balancing update!??!?!?!? Could it?!!=????!?!?!

[Aethyrguard]

Could it be that it's PART of the whole balancing update!??!?!?!? Could it?!!=????!?!?!

Haha. I know Means even says in the OP that it won't be arriving until the BIG nano/perk/Mechancics/balancefix patch, but, people can't seem to read.

[Klod9000]

I agree with zartosht. {edited by Anarrina: removed unnecessary comment}

There are broken crap in this game that needs more attention then parry/riposte and fixing some of that would help all professions, not only melee ones (who got way too much love lately anyways).

[Aethyrguard]

I agree with zartosht. {removed from original post by Anarrina}

There are broken crap in this game that needs more attention then parry/riposte and fixing some of that would help all professions, not only melee ones (who got way too much love lately anyways).

If I was Zartosht I would not be happy for your endorsement. Hahaha! That's like throwing gasoline on a fire for bad.

Broken crap in this game, "Like Parry & Riposte!!!!!!!111111111", that are in need of attention before some professions in need of help can get it. Funny how you are in direct opposition to everything even current on the forums? It is as if you are living in a time warp. Recent patches - Fixes/changes to an old Pistol Perk line (Yep damn those melee <3 patches), +FA and entire new perk line for fixers (more melee love here ). Oh wait you mean because during that a couple of perklines for Enforcers got changed that all of melee needs to continue to be ignored because MP's aren't in god mode atm? I gotcha. Yeah that makes a lot of sense I mean because Enforcers are realllllly going to be ++Parry & Riposte.

Did some calculations and there simply isn't much if any benefit to Enforcers coming from parry/riposte like a lot of you are assuming, they simply lack the IP to do it and still cast top end game nanos and maintian multimelee, or sneak attack, etc. They simply will have to make some serious sacrifices to put points up in to it and still won't be able to cap it out at max spending. So this addresses which professions? Shades, Keepers, Martial Artists and maybe a few sacrificing melee adv? Yet it isn't even coming until the BIG all inclusive final rebalance patch?

{edited by Anarrina: removed quote of deleted post and answer}

[mozaix]

so.. whats in it for us ranged users? nothing? thought so... oh well..

We get teh AS nerf! YAY!

[vallikat]

Oh hai!!

/me passes around muffins to everyone.

You all looked like you could use some muffiny goodness.

Nowhere in anything I have read from Means suggests on any level that Parry/Riposte are the things that are going to be fixed and ef everything else that's broken. Nowhere in anything I have read from Means suggests on any level that they don't care about what else is wrong or that they are making no effort to fix or to do anything else. What I read was "look, we didn't get as far along on the things I thought we would so I can't tell you about those things, but this is what I can share from this week."

Now, lets all go back to eating our muffins and stop acting like our issues are the only ones that should matter.

I mean seriously, I was personally promised* Dancer Cages, yet you don't see me in here whining every 3 seconds that they didn't drop everything to get them in game yet. I mean its been more than a month since DragonCon!!


Mmmmm Muffin.





(*ok, "promised" is probably too strong of a word, but it fit the sentence better than "late night drunken conversations strongly suggested that Dancer Cages were possible." )

[Aethyrguard]

Oh hai!!

/me passes around muffins to everyone.

You all looked like you could use some muffiny goodness.

Nowhere in anything I have read from Means suggests on any level that Parry/Riposte are the things that are going to be fixed and ef everything else that's broken. Nowhere in anything I have read from Means suggests on any level that they don't care about what else is wrong or that they are making no effort to fix or to do anything else. What I read was "look, we didn't get as far along on the things I thought we would so I can't tell you about those things, but this is what I can share from this week."

Now, lets all go back to eating our muffins and stop acting like our issues are the only ones that should matter.

I mean seriously, I was personally promised* Dancer Cages, yet you don't see me in here whining every 3 seconds that they didn't drop everything to get them in game yet. I mean its been more than a month since DragonCon!!


Mmmmm Muffin.





(*ok, "promised" is probably too strong of a word, but it fit the sentence better than "late night drunken conversations strongly suggested that Dancer Cages were possible." )

Mmmm Muffins!

{Edited by Anarrina: removed deleted post and response}

[zartosht]

i was commenting about your Tanana quote that was out of context

I am sorry but my quote of who? Which quote?

[zartosht]

I can move on if you can.

Let's move on.

[vallikat]

Mmmm Muffins!

That's the spirit!