Friday with Means - July 24th, 2009 - Pink Eye, Airplanes and Nightclubs

[meatybtz]

I am reminded of the Emperor of Humanity on his Golden Throne. He is still technically alive.. but... while the contraption that keeps him alive is really whiz-bang totally awesome and godlike.. he remains a Corpse Emperor.. a living dead husk.

[Ebondevil]

I am reminded of the Emperor of Humanity on his Golden Throne.

All Hail the most beneficent God-Emperor of Mankind.

[Ayria]

When people gathered weekly at The Cup. Remember that?

When I was Clan years ago I tried to host parties in The Cup, I was a low level, mostly broke MP but I tried my best to gather money and neat prizes to have contests and a good time. I still have screenshots of the crowds it gathered.

I stopped doing them because people stopped coming, those that came were old friends whom were in my org or those who were after the money I was giving out as door prizes to just run off as soon as they had it.

We can recoup what was lost though, but enough players have to care. I do not think it is for the grind, being to busy to socialize, I think it's that the emphasis on PvP from LE onwards (as my parties were all after AI was out) has attracted a much different crowed of players to the game. Players that do seek to be the top and only ever want to PvP or get the next best bit of gear to PvP with.

Those of us who play socially don't care if we fall behind because winning at PvP isn't or wasn't our goal. Having fun was, and you can do that as much with a naked level one as you can a decked out 220/30/70.

[Gastastic]

I am a long time proponent for social aspect of AO, storyline, and even "gasp" RP. The problem is FC has crafted the game into something that is mutually exclusive to a living breathing social system in game...

I agree that carrot statflation has affected the end game - though I think it's the result more of untouchable game dynamics (for fear of breaking the undocumented, original engine) than from any lack of insight on the part of the devs. My guess anyway. I think carrots at the end has been all they've been able to offer for the past few years. I don't like it either, I've mostly been rolling alts for the past three years, have no combined armor on any toon, haven't hit 30 or 70 on any - even my oldest toons.

People used to loathe the 1-200 grind too. Man they complained. I think we were more united at lower levels, though, because we spent more time there and we needed eachother's help - and skills - to progress. With the 'death pool' feature a player's skills became less crucial. With kiting, outside tanks, and a diminishing pool of players who knew how to do anything else, leveling became passive. Mehtehuber noobs, powerleveled up and ensconced in armor they paid RL cash for, seem to be the standard now. There's no bonding over a mission where your teamates skills mean you will level or wake up, rez-sick and no more experienced than at your last save. We used to care deeply about surviving to save our progress, and thus about our virtual lives, everything mattered more. And it was all newer too, just more gloss and mystery.

Funcom will be able to change the game significantly when the new engine is ready. I'm not saying they will but, if that's what's been forcing them into carrot's-at-the-end rather than 'intrigue throughout' - they might.

[Susi]

Hmm, isn't it just a graphics engine update or are they rewriting the mechanics engine too?

[Windguaerd]

Hmm, isn't it just a graphics engine update or are they rewriting the mechanics engine too?

Dreamworld Rendering Engine.

[Klanbear]

The situation in regards to social has got worse in the last year. Now it seems that no one wants to swap a joke , sit and chill or just be plain silly.

I am not A RP'er but I do like to log on and communicate with people. It's just not happeing anymore. I have to treat the game as pretty much a solo game with some team add-ons.

The only places you easily can get a team for pickup regardless of breed/profession is probably S10 for farming bounties, even then its only about the phats and not about having a fun time. There are still a few social missions that can be enjoyed. Genghis Pan anyone and ofc the social clothing *yaaawn*.

I think the move by FC is good providing more social aspects. I like the social tab, actually seeing what some weapons/armors look like without equipping has been interesting...

However it would be good if the social side was revamped eg. social rewards like keelar sunglasses for running fastest across RK or other events. It would be a nice social thing if you could somehow put a ranking table on forums etc. People love their names put up in lights.
Maybe use the advert screens for results etc. Or maybe a swiming competition like the one through Tir's poisoned water. And thats so 2002 . Is it possible to have a timer like that, no idea but if possible it would be fun to make toons just for the bragging rights

[Sama]

The AI armor bonuses are just insane. I could see the bonuses if the AC was not all that. I mean some type of cost for the benefit. But as it you can equip a full set of 300 CC and have 210 pts in every primary ranged and melee skill and over 10k AC.

AI armor is really just the worse game addition ever. As Means said the developer of it never imagined people having full sets. That is so short sited of a game developer especially given the power of the item.

There is a very bad trend in the game development of AO. It is "Add new content" and let the old stuff become useless. My question to Means about old RK weapons getting some love was answered with "vendor trash" and "rather add new" is very disapointing. The fact that outside of cluster shops and some of the trade skill shops the medical supply / NCU / backpack stores are the only real stores with items of value. Ok I admit weapons store for ammo only.

AC holes were great. I remember as meatybtz my solider having a chem gun / engergy gun / flame thrower / projectile gun with me all the time. I also remember the post explaining how to have even AC's with mixed armor types. The carrying of all the reflect bracers and damage rings. Figting PVP back then was as much about the fight as it was swapping into the best choice of gear. Heck even missions benefited from it.

Grrrrr, I feel like we have hit the tipping point and are going over. Health wise the game is suffering. Heck even on the forums. The number of actively updated threads a day is down considerable to this time last year.

i dont think that we will ever see an ai nerf, and i hope we dont continue to see every patch and expansion adding only end game content. I think the best use of old stuff that could be turned upgradeable could be to both fill in the holes in the grind and further develope common twink levels. ie upgradeable EQB for 174 or 200 level characters...

[rakhabit]

The AI armor bonuses are just insane. I could see the bonuses if the AC was not all that. I mean some type of cost for the benefit. But as it you can equip a full set of 300 CC and have 210 pts in every primary ranged and melee skill and over 10k AC.

AI armor is really just the worse game addition ever. As Means said the developer of it never imagined people having full sets. That is so short sited of a game developer especially given the power of the item.

There is a very bad trend in the game development of AO. It is "Add new content" and let the old stuff become useless. My question to Means about old RK weapons getting some love was answered with "vendor trash" and "rather add new" is very disapointing. The fact that outside of cluster shops and some of the trade skill shops the medical supply / NCU / backpack stores are the only real stores with items of value. Ok I admit weapons store for ammo only.

AC holes were great. I remember as meatybtz my solider having a chem gun / engergy gun / flame thrower / projectile gun with me all the time. I also remember the post explaining how to have even AC's with mixed armor types. The carrying of all the reflect bracers and damage rings. Figting PVP back then was as much about the fight as it was swapping into the best choice of gear. Heck even missions benefited from it.

Grrrrr, I feel like we have hit the tipping point and are going over. Health wise the game is suffering. Heck even on the forums. The number of actively updated threads a day is down considerable to this time last year.

AI armor is what broke the game. It's so powerful that it trumped everything else, if you didn't have it, your character was crap. Also, the simple fact that you need to get 14 lead viralbots(10% drop) for every person in the guild created a grind that drove most of the older players away, and that's not even considering that when a bot does drop it's only 1/6 chance that it's a bot you need. Here we are, several years later, and AI armor is still the end game armor, that's testament to how ridiculously overpowered it was and still is. Sure some people can replace a piece of AI armor here and there with some LE armor, but for the most part, Combined armor is king. I would love to see it dethroned, but it's so good that anything FC could add to outdo it would be even more ridiculous.

[Gralmuph]

I would love to see it dethroned, but it's so good that anything FC could add to outdo it would be even more ridiculous.

they could nerf the AI armor big time?

[Sama]

they could nerf the AI armor big time?

that or make it a more common drop...

[ArienSky]

that or make it a more common drop...

meaning everyone in the game has the same armor..
Less cookie cutter, more variation please.


But indeed a dilemma, as it is hard to remove something from the game, once it has gotten in..

As I see it there are three options:
1) Limit it so you can only use one piece of AI armor per toon
2) Removing the AI armor
3) Enhancing all other armors, including the old ones.
ok and 4) let AI armor be and have this boring no worthwhile alternative system.


1) is ofcause the optimal solution, the way it was intended..
How I would wish it was..
But it will also have a great effect on those having farmed it, as pieces will fall in price, and it requires new coding.

2) is easy, but people will have wasted a lot of hours, getting frustrated.

3) requires A LOT of work

4) requires nothing, but brings the situation we have now

Kind Regards
Ariensky

[rakhabit]

they could nerf the AI armor big time?

Even if they just removed the ability to make Combined Armor I'd be happy. Like instead of having Combined Sharpshooter, you'd have to choose if you wanted the offensive boost from Supple or the defensive boost from Observant, or maybe a couple pieces of each to balance your character out. Having to make choices is a good thing; having everything given to you on one piece of armor is boring.

And for the record, I have two 220's geared out with full combined and two TL5 twinks with full combined so my dislike of AI armor is not due to me not having any, it's due to me seeing it for the overpowered game ruining **** that it is :P

[cbus97]

How did a "name the new nightclub" thread turn into a "nerf AI armor" thread? Big debump on that. AI armor is fine. It's not "game-breaking" and unbalanced - every toon - every prof, breed and faction has equal access. It's just a matter of how hard you want to work. And for those who don't want to work so hard, there are decent, but not-quite-as-good alternatives. Seems fair to me.

By the same logic, should we nerf research, tokens, axp perks and VP rewards? It's the same situation - a long boring grind for a powerful reward that everyone has access to.

If they do nerf AI armor, they had better put in a shop terminal or NPC who will buy it back for actual market value, because I didn't spend hundreds of game-hours farming creds (real legitimate in-game work, not buying with a Visa card) to see it all go away.

[Bugzybug]

means was online 8D

[Sama]

meaning everyone in the game has the same armor..
Less cookie cutter, more variation please.

more common doesnt mean make it common. if the drop rate is 10% a bump to 20% wont make ai armor so that its laying around and everyone has it, but it would cut the cost so you wouldnt have to pay 4.2 bil for a set of armor. doubling the drop rate would still cost 2.1 bil for a set, that not cheap...

but in the end i agree having better alternatives would be great, but then if its not done right it will just be more of the same with the new ai armor...

[Auroch]

AI armor is fine. It's not "game-breaking" and unbalanced - every toon - every prof, breed and faction has equal access. It's just a matter of how hard you want to work. And for those who don't want to work so hard, there are decent, but not-quite-as-good alternatives. Seems fair to me.

By the same logic, should we nerf research, tokens, axp perks and VP rewards? It's the same situation - a long boring grind for a powerful reward that everyone has access to.

Good call.

[Autohead]

Good call.

My thoughts exactly.

[Righteous]

I'm just f5'ing

[Raynefists]

People used to loathe the 1-200 grind too. Man they complained. I think we were more united at lower levels, though, because we spent more time there and we needed eachother's help - and skills - to progress. With the 'death pool' feature a player's skills became less crucial. With kiting, outside tanks, and a diminishing pool of players who knew how to do anything else, leveling became passive. Mehtehuber noobs, powerleveled up and ensconced in armor they paid RL cash for, seem to be the standard now. There's no bonding over a mission where your teamates skills mean you will level or wake up, rez-sick and no more experienced than at your last save. We used to care deeply about surviving to save our progress, and thus about our virtual lives, everything mattered more. And it was all newer too, just more gloss and mystery.

i think you are greatly overstating the difficulty of the game pre-sl. The only skill that you really learned from pre-sl was how to navigate through missions quickly. Doing thousands and thousands of missions didnt teach anyone how to play, especially since the majority of the time pre-sl people didnt even run missions above ql 190.