sure we are. i've recently had that daily where you are ordered to deliver leavlets to ten bars in rk, omni ent, tir, nlc... and i was thinking "hahaha poor sided basterds" ^^Originally Posted by Gora
sure we are. i've recently had that daily where you are ordered to deliver leavlets to ten bars in rk, omni ent, tir, nlc... and i was thinking "hahaha poor sided basterds" ^^
Being able to go anywhere means everything is shadowland, in each area, statues goes to either side. That makes a huge difference when trying to get around. Risking more flames, I would like to say that neutrals doing pvp would be like if Switzerland were to attack either side in world war II, what do you think would happen then? It does not make sense to let you take part in the conflict without the constraints each side has. Being neutral means wielding a shield of neutrality, it means "I do not care about the conflict, I just want to do pvm and make a profit selling stuff to either side", it does not mean that you should be allowed to attack when you please. Once you attack you should loose that shield of neutrality and possible not be allowed to go anywhere but neutral areas. It is not a matter of neutral hate, it is a matter of game balance and fairness. Neutrals are like adolescent living in their parents house, they don't want to pay the bills, however they want to come and go when they please, have party when they please, play loud music when they please. Grow up and choose a side...
I would advise ppl to go back and read all Aethyrguards posts, he pretty much got everything right.
Last edited by salamander123; Sep 22nd, 2010 at 16:09:08. Reason: adding
if its so infantile to be neutral then why an application form? ^^
to correct your POV on the neutral status... think of the neutrals as beeing as neutral as the US in rl. selling weapons to any sides, making profit, fighting any side when the time is right (or as a distraction when the female intern causes trouble in icc *head*quarters).
beeing neutral is like making you own religion, not following anyones agenda and asking yourself "what has true belief to do with a book?".
whats the problem with rolling a new neutral char if you think their uberness burns? i've gone from 1 to 210/21/51 in <3 months with my current char without any funds to pimp him up... the whole "i want to change sides with my old hags" is a little pathetic. more honesty on the true intentions would cure this.
all i see is "nerf a good share of the playerbase" and instead of "i want them down so i will be up" the argument is disesed-minded rp-gibberish. even no one honestly said "I'm a pvp'er and i want to join the bs as a neutral on any side and as often as i can but i'm too lazy to roll one and want to use my old chars - so gief application form".
in the end fc wants paying players and if you could easily choose to be neut again youd earlier get fed up by repetitive bs... so its money for them if you have to reroll, and dont say players will leave - fc sure knows the power of rpg addiction.
It seems the only fix to this, that might be fair for everybody, is to remove the clan/omni faction and let everybody be neutral and just have a sliding faction counter to determine what gear we can wear. However that would completely blow up the storyline. And as Aethyrguard pointed out before, all the things that you believe neutrals should be is already incorporated into the clan faction, so game-wise it is already there just in a different package and with strings attached, maybe more strings than you like to have, but you can't have something for nothing. I'm not against neutrals, that is not my point, many things about the idea of neutrals I like, i.e. you can withdraw from pvp and just do pvm and get rich on selling stuff, I'm against game imbalance and things that does not match the storyline. Imbalance in the sense that you, while wielding a shield of neutrality and observer status, conduct just as bloody war as omni and clan and have tower fields etc. If you want to do that, neutrals need to take the step fully and really become a third faction, with its own areas in shadowland and own gardens or means of transport, maybe through the yuttos and loose their ability to mingle freely. I'm also against the fact that you potentially would be able to first choose whatever side has the best xp gain, level up, and then switch back to neutral when it pleases you. In most wars deserters and traitors are treated pretty harshly and that has likely not changed in the 292nd century... But then we have catch-22, what about those players who have not decided what faction they want to be in, so we will have to create a 4th group, that all players start as, and then let them choose. They will be able to go everywhere just to check things out and we allow them access to all the content, since they paid for it after-all... and the trouble start again... They start grouping together acting like a faction, asks for access to all the same content as everybody else has... etc etc... The buck has to stop somewhere. The neutrals should never have been given all the red meat they got in the first place, I'm sorry, but treating them as an almost faction in their own right just doesn't make sense...
Last edited by salamander123; Sep 22nd, 2010 at 18:37:51. Reason: adding
Tell me: if neutrals are so fun, why is it that not everybody is playing neutral and that we actually are a minority? Could it be that this sided armor, token board and big bunch of people supporting you (e.g. in NW resulting in nice side xp, nice towers and nice contracts) isn't that bad after all? Plus, side people the ones that's able to hop between in and out and back between Clan/Omni. Besides, I'm not asking for freely switching: I think it's very reasonable that Clan/Omni doesn't want you back once you resigned.
Summary of my last post: we're not called pacifist and you can not exclude such a big portion of the game to a certain part of the playerbase. Argument with those arguments instead of repeating yourself and making me repeat myself, please.
Which is exactly what Clan and Omni are able to do now. Except that Clan and Omni now all have pretty much the same stuff (opposing sides???) and that there is no reason for anymore. Stuff that was given through a lot of whining and non of which was given to neutrals or even asked by neutrals (merely thinking about sta / FA sleeves and gunships). Neutrals ask for more modest stuff and don't get it. Heck, we're asking for something that sided people would be able to do and we shouldn't get it...?
Oh, I do like eating cake! A lot! I like pie more though, mmmhh, pie!
VP can be considered as a payment to the mercenaries.
I know i know, mercenaries have never been popular, but try to be polite please?
What do you think would happen if neutrals attack either side in Notum Wars? They'll get the whole side on their roof and neutrals are nowhere pvp-organized or numbered enough to do anything about it (unless the specific org that was attacked is actually very unpopular within the people of their own side). I think it's nice that this whole political game is played by players and not by NPC's (that would start attacking neutrals that attacked their side).
Where is this imbalance? Most people seem to think neutrals are underpowered (both sided people that prefer a side above being underpowered and neutral people that take a few other advantages above being underpowered). The imbalance you seem to mention seems to be the same thing as the storyline thing you mention. About the storyline: there is things that are much much much much worse storyline breaking then what you are talking about. For example Clans and Omni teaming and raiding together. Some things simply make the game more fun and not being to strict about the storyline to allow this fun is certainly a good thing.
Edta 200 NT, froob , Setup, General of NEPA, Raid Leader of TLfiveplus (Froob Raids)
Neutral For Life, AO For Ever!
Please, let Clan and Omni return to Neutral Clan/Omni Resignation forms!
I understand that you want to spew your anti-neut crap around, but at least stop being the fanboi of some single digit IQ idiot. Pick another idol, there are some intelligent anti-neut activists around, that guy (and his personalities) is not one of them.
I guess anybody who disagrees with you have a lower iq and if they agree with someone who disagrees with you it makes them a fanboi. sweet, nothing is better than a good mud fight.
Bottomline is, there is nothing wrong with neut status, it should just not be considered a faction. It's a learning phase for new players that has been unnaturally extended to be an almost faction, a state in which players stay and safely does pvp and can pick and choose who they want to fight and when...
"Yes Mister Unicorn, I know I blew up the precious tower field belonging to one of your devoted employee organization last week, but I am not really against omni you see, I just like to blow things up and kill people, so please let me walk past here so I can get to that mission inside your city. I'll promise that on Wednesday I will blow up a clan field, deal?"
Can you please stop pretending like
A) Neutrals are OP
and B) Neutrals can freely take part into towerwars without consequences
because
A) We are not
and B) We can not.
:P
Edta 200 NT, froob , Setup, General of NEPA, Raid Leader of TLfiveplus (Froob Raids)
Neutral For Life, AO For Ever!
Please, let Clan and Omni return to Neutral Clan/Omni Resignation forms!
Well it seems like, according to your signature, that you only have froob characters, i.e. there is a chance you have not been to SL. If you went to SL you would understand what a huge benefit being neutral is getting around, leveling up and completing quests, compared to sided characters, I have done it myself so I know what I am talking about. When you get to Adonis around lvl 130+, clan and omni generally split up and rarely team together any longer, however neutrals have twice the options of getting teams and can quickly get around. They can do the garden and sanctuary key quests for twice the xp. So what potentially is going to happen is that people pick a side to get extra xp, level to 130, switch to neutral to get around easier, then get both shadow breeds.
I am not saying there is no consequences taking part in towerwars, you will likely loose the field (as both omni and clan does the next week or two anyway), however that is only on player to player level, and some orgs may put you on their hate list (like clan/omni does with other clan/omni attacking their field), not game mechanics level, you can still prance around in Rome like nothing happened if you attacked an omni field, even though omni is supposed to label anyone attacking omni as clan. Its the whole sanctuary thing while doing pvp that seems skewed to me.
What I am trying to convey here is, that neutral is an introductory state, that has been expanded to a near faction without consequences in pvp, and by making it easier for people to become neutral you increase a flawed game mechanics that were not supposed to be there in the first place. Im not trying to remove neutrals, they have their place, it should just be a pure pvm and explorer state, not a faction.
Before trying to tell us what we should be, try to play the game more k? Because...
Ignorant post of the week? Neuts don't get both shadowbreeds mkay? First SB is omni SB1, second is clan SB1, third is omni SB2. We can only use one, can't use all 3 of them. And none of them is the top SB. And 205+ only. Also, what the heck is so OP with those keys? We can do 11 more key quests, yeah. So? The xp equivalent of 22 dailes. That's all.
Well, my highest expansion character is lvl 100, so quite correct in this context.
Can you still do all low level garden/sanctuary quests and get award from them at lvl 130?
I kind of like this kind of game being on player to player level. There is no game mechanic either that (for example) results in decreasing OT popularity, trouble with ICC or more neutrals/Omni's turning into Clan when an Omni shoots an innocent neutral.
Combining both: SL also resulted in TL7 players being so powerful they can cross cities from the opposing cities without problems: an advantage that's supposed to be specific to neutrals.
What consequences is it that sided people have in pvp that we lack?
Edta 200 NT, froob , Setup, General of NEPA, Raid Leader of TLfiveplus (Froob Raids)
Neutral For Life, AO For Ever!
Please, let Clan and Omni return to Neutral Clan/Omni Resignation forms!
Dude, you're full of sh**, if you have any idea about neutrals you should already know XP/SK for neutrals rely on faction with Guardian but you already knew that, don't you? Afaik playing omni/clan does not require to kill Lotv or Inf heckler bosses or even Beast to gain XP/SK like anyone else in Inf missions.But you already know that,again, don't you?
Secondly, the so called ''huge benefit'' from both garden keys is buried by LFT window filter Clan/Omni where the 220 rolled is looking for people on same side.
You were talking about neutrals being able to see both omni and clan chats but hey, it really is a benefit to see 6 credit spammer messages instead of 3.Otherwise every single omni/clan has a neutral selling toon in neutral org - so much about ''gaining fortunes''.
You might be enjoying this topic but I think you got it wrong - there is no debate between players for bringing Neutral Application Form into the game, it is addressed to AO team.
This being said, focus on whatever you're doing in game as sided player and leave us alone!
GL Mr. ''I know what I am talking about'',
There seems to be an awful lot of hostility directed at Neutrals in here.
There are many reasons to be sided, and many reasons to be neutral. I do not think it would be game-breaking to allow those players who do want to be neutral to switch sides.
1) Oh noes! Neuts are teh overpowered!!
-- Not really. Sided toons quite clearly have an advantage with many sided-only pieces of gear (think tokenboards). Nearly all the hardcore twinkers I know are sided for the advantages provided by gear.
2) Oh noes! People will go neut to do bs/farm keys, etc!
-- Is this really a bad thing? More neutrals in BS means it runs more, as we can make up the shortfall on whichever side isn't showing up. And it's already possible to roll a neut and get it 220 (with all those apparently uber key quests factored into the xp gained along the way) then go sided. This will not change anything.
3). Oh noes! Neuts will get both shadowbreeds!
-- I doubt this would even be possible. Once you're changed sides, I would imagine you cannot cast an SB that's only castable by another side (if not, this would be easily corrected). As it is right now, there's Clan, Omni, and Neutral SBs-- we can't use either the clan or the omni ones.
4). Oh noes! it goes against the storyline!!
-- Not really. Why does everyone have to be allied with either clan or Omni? What about the ICC peacekeepers? Why can't there be mercenaries? Merchants? And besides, even if it were, should the storyline interfere with actual fun gameplay? Clans/Omnis raiding together is also against the storyline....but that's overlooked because it's fun/useful.
5) Oh noes! Neutrals were never meant to exist! they are a glitch in the game that has gotten out of control!
-- No. There are pieces of gear in game that are Neutral only, which says neutrals were indeed intended to exist, even at high levels.
6). Oh noes! people switching to Neutral will ruin all my fun as a sided player!!
-- This seems to be what many in this thread are suggesting. I highly doubt most players would go neutral given the opportunity. A significant minority will, and this change will be very nice for those of us who'd like to. All your uber pvp org mates, however, are not likely to want to. Those that do go neut, will likely not effect your sided game play in any way, except possibly being one more body you can team with when /lft inf mish is dead.
So, question to all you sided people so against neutrals....will it really completely ruin the game for you to allow a handful of dissatisfied sided players to "quit" their faction and go neutral?
I somehow doubt it.
Last edited by Kiwifruits; Sep 23rd, 2010 at 17:59:38. Reason: Because I can
/applause
Edta 200 NT, froob , Setup, General of NEPA, Raid Leader of TLfiveplus (Froob Raids)
Neutral For Life, AO For Ever!
Please, let Clan and Omni return to Neutral Clan/Omni Resignation forms!
lol i think the irony of all the clan on neut hate is it they sound a lot like omni commenting on clanner i guess its just freedom for some...
Can't add any more to that really, just to say hear hear, bump etc.
Despite the heartfelt arguments against this, I still see no sensible reason why there isn't a Neut app form. It's all we're asking for, not new goodies, not to be able to hang onto sided items. Just to turn neut if we choose it. Not a lot to ask eh?
Bump bump bump!!!
"From a RP perspective neutrals should not even be allowed to participate in tower wars or BS, it goes against the very essence of the storylines background/reason for the existence of neutrals."
- Because it was not only since yesterday, and it is not only from today but since 9 long years from the begining of this game that neutrals exist, can attack anyone and towers and can be attacked, joining BS and fighting since LE come in live, then everyone (neutrals and everyone attacked them) have played the wrong story line, and that under the control of 3 game director and the developers working on the game, but except yourself who keep in mind the very essence of the story line, i can say that will cost alot, healthcare perspective.
"As for the side change, once you have soiled your hands, your soul is tainted, period."
- And for most famous religions of this world, the redemption concept exist, period or not. But if you have seen someone with big horns come and say to you "there is no redemption for you salamander123 !" then yes I'm agreed, you are really damned.
"Neutrals are like adolescent living in their parents house, they don't want to pay the bills"
- Say thank to papa and mama neutral, because since 9 years papa and mama neutrals were the only ones who paid the bill of the tokens board, to keep the sided population high.
Last edited by huckleberry; Sep 24th, 2010 at 10:35:13.
tough luck guys.
no wall hoping, just fence sitting
<3
EDIT: zomg i just trolled the poor wannabe neuts..
Last edited by Gatess; Sep 24th, 2010 at 16:14:09.
all factions seem to do it pande raids
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