Neutral Application Form

[Edta]

oh cmon guys. thats the very single action you can not fully revert in this game so live with it.

That seems like a pretty good argument to actually do it. Why only harm a certain part of the population? I never needed an IP-reset, yet I was 'stupid' enough to have a relative high level Omni toon that I want to be neutral. Lets make it the other way around and make IP-distribution the only thing you can't revert.... now that would cause some opposition . And yes, I was aware of the text mentioned in the application form, I'm just stupid I guess. Or maybe I only realized how much I hate playing a sided toon by doing so...

[Escapegoat]

bump for this

[huckleberry]

"Clan" or "Omni" are not genetic. It is only ideology and affinity. The prove is an Omni can use an application form to join Clan, and Clan can use the same way to join Omni. The same thing work for "Neutral" if they want to join "Clan" or "Omni". Hence, if it is ideology and affinity, then it will be possible to chose the "Neutral" ideology and affinity by a same application form.
An application form for "Clan" and "Omni" to join "Neutral" is logic, coherence, rational.
It do not exist any argument valid to reject this request.

[Gora]

Orgmate was doing daily on his Neutral S10 Doc; while trying to delete the clan app form there was some funky lag and an LD. When he logged back on he was clan. After waiting in petition for some hours, he learned

(18:46) [FancyNeutOrg] FancyNeutOrg: [Guest] FormerNeutDoc: . I apologize but we will not be able to assist you in returning this character to being Neutral

Debump for Neutral application forms. Sucks for my mate but at least there is still one thing in this game that has lasting consequences.

[Anrecto]

This is not the first char who was Sided after doing this mission.
An Org member rerolled his 150 toon after learning that no GM will bring him back to Neut after accidentdentially using this item.

So regardless of pros and cons of getting back to neut, as long as it is impossible to get Neut again, it should be not so easy to get Clomni by right click on the wrong item and lagging on the wrong answer button (this would be sufficient, if it is not so often that you experience quite "interessting" lags, mouse jumps and similar with ATI graphic card leading to unexpected behavior, clicking on the wrong place and so on).

And as long as it is so easy to get accidentially sided, there need to be a way back. Even if it is hard quest.

[alderwaran]

i've had that daily too and was very very(!) cautious when deleting that form.
first i's idiotic by funcom to give out such a game altering item as part of a daily mission. no further discussion needed.
second i find it funny how often rare conditions meet to form a desaster. you get exactly THAT daily, you click "use" instead of "delete" and then you click "ok" instead of "cancel" due to a lag that exactly happens when you are about to click that dialog away.

[Edta]

Orgmate was doing daily on his Neutral S10 Doc; while trying to delete the clan app form there was some funky lag and an LD. When he logged back on he was clan. After waiting in petition for some hours, he learned



Debump for Neutral application forms. Sucks for my mate but at least there is still one thing in this game that has lasting consequences.

You sir, are weird... (even more then me ). You give a great argument and still debump? *sigh*

If you absolutely want something irreversible in game, make it something logic... Could be anything, but if we'd stay in the same field of faction-choices it would for example be 1000 times more logical that once you have been Omni (or Clan) you can never become Clan (or Omni) again. This would then go with either a free switching between the faction you have chosen and neutral OR (and I have a slight preference for this second option) a one time possibility to go Neutral from Clan/Omni (with an infinite faction lock timer; yay: another thing with lasting consequences ).

[Escapegoat]

I'd be fine with even a 1-time only ever side change to Neutral, and you can never change sides again after....just make it possible, at least once.

I have alts I can't even include in my own org just because I messed them up when I was a noobie...What's the need for having an action like that be irreversible?

The more flexibility you give people with their toons, the more fun/interesting the game is.

[Escapegoat]

bumps!

[Escapegoat]

Equal rights for Neutrals!

Time to start a protest march for civil rights?

[Corneilla]

Bump

[salamander123]

From a RP perspective neutrals should not even be allowed to participate in tower wars or BS, it goes against the very essence of the storylines background/reason for the existence of neutrals. It do however add some interesting gameplay scenarios and fill up slots in BS queues. As for the side change, once you have soiled your hands, your soul is tainted, period. Once you pick up a gun and attacks either side be it omni or clan, you have made your choice. You should not be able to go back to neutral, that is just plain wrong, shouldn't even be possible to shift between omni/clan. Unless there was a RL reason, like your friends are neutral and you would really like to be in their org. However that could be handled outside of game with a petition, with sufficient proof. Just say no to flip floppers and turncoats...

[Edta]

From a RP perspective neutrals should not even be allowed to participate in tower wars or BS, it goes against the very essence of the storylines background/reason for the existence of neutrals. It do however add some interesting gameplay scenarios and fill up slots in BS queues. As for the side change, once you have soiled your hands, your soul is tainted, period. Once you pick up a gun and attacks either side be it omni or clan, you have made your choice. You should not be able to go back to neutral, that is just plain wrong, shouldn't even be possible to shift between omni/clan. Unless there was a RL reason, like your friends are neutral and you would really like to be in their org. However that could be handled outside of game with a petition, with sufficient proof. Just say no to flip floppers and turncoats...

Well, from a RP perspective neutrals actually emerged from Omni and Clan:

29250 The first "neutrals" appear when Omni-Tek employees - as well as clan members - abandon their affiliations and settle in non-political zones. Fearing more ICC interventions, OT authorities turn a blind eye to these neutrals.

Why Clan and Omni clan freely switch? No Clue. Application forms mention "If you wonder why this is sold on both sides, it is because both sides agree they don't want moles. Take your stand in the struggle and stay with it..."... Does this make sense to anybody? I mean: having easy access to these forms is exactly what makes 'being a mole' and 'not staying with the stand you took' easy...

Anyway, if you allow it to Omni and Clan for RL reasons, it should be allowed for neutrals as well. I highly doubt they'll make a Clan/Omni into a neutral by petitioning.

About neutrals in BS and tower wars:
- OOC: We're allowed to have all the fun in the game others get to experience, aren't we?
- 'IC': Neutrals aren't called 'peacefuls'. We stay out of the conflict, but that doesn't mean we can't fight.
If Clans attack Omni-Tek they do this to get the oppressors away from Rubi-Ka. If Omni attacks Clan, they do this to take care of the terrorists. Now if neutrals would attack they could do this for personal profit, which could be the case in Notum Wars. BUT: they are standing alone in a world dominated by 2 big groups, and if you'd attack one of the groups, this whole group will probably start considering you as an enemy. That's how it is in AO: while NW is possible for neutrals, you have to be extremely careful with it.

There is another reason why pvp is possible for neutrals, a reason for people to fight without caring about the conflict or profit, and it's somewhat related to the OOC reason. Some people simply like challenging sports and killing people can be quiet challenging: death not being permanent on Rubi-Ka just makes it more attractive for the non really-hardcore-people (and since playing with death is very unhealthy on other planets, there isn't too many of those): no guilt for the people you kill and not too much fear of perma-death (though you might get unlucky and insurance can fail for once :P).

About Battle Stations: I'm not sure what the RP behind those are: Omni and Clan are fighting for the right to be the one that's allowed to shoot the aliens into tiny pieces :P? Well, I guess controlling these also brings other advantages like allowing which spaceships are allowed to enter Rubi-Ka... Neutrals can be considered mercenaries in BS I guess .

[salamander123]

So I guess neutrals want all the fun without the responsibilities, you can already go everywhere (except Tir city), do either sides garden and sanctuary quests for double the xp and double the shopping possibilities, do both shadow breed lines, do all the sided end-game stuff. And now you want to be able to hop in and out and back? The only thing you don't get is sided armor and token board.

I would suggest that if you really want to be able to switch to neutral, neutral should loose any possibility to even do pvp, since choosing neutral you officially sign out of the conflict. Nobody should be able to attack you, however you cannot start a fight either (without marking yourself again as either clan or omni), it may however make sense to let you attack another neutral tower base or attack other neutrals in bs.

Neutral should not be considered a third faction, it should be a sanctuary condition, where you state "I do not pvp leave me alone".

[Sama]

this makes since from every angle why isnt it in game yet?

good post btw edta...

sided people in ao generally think that neutral means pacifist where as neutrals generally interpret as choosing not to side completely with either omni or clan. neutrals in ao today are mercenaries and merchants...

[salamander123]

One other thing to consider is to remove the victory points from neutral characters as well, it should be considered a sided point system like tokens, as well as any benefits that comes with victory points.

[Mekh]

this makes since from every angle why isnt it in game yet?

good post btw edta...

sided people in ao generally think that neutral means pacifist where as neutrals generally interpret as choosing not to side completely with either omni or clan. neutrals in ao today are mercenaries and merchants...

This...

[mocs]

From a RP perspective neutrals should not even be allowed to participate in tower wars or BS...

Dude, since when RP is related to tower wars? You should stick to whatever you do as roleplayer which does NOT include posting on Game Suggestions page. Thank you in advance, now shu.

[salamander123]

One other thing to consider is to remove the victory points from neutral characters as well, it should be considered a sided point system like tokens, as well as any benefits that comes with victory points, i.e. neutrals cannot collect victory points. Changing side between clan/omni should resolve in loss of vicory points and gear as well, but not the ability to regenerate points.

Let me get this straight, you want to be able to chose when and whom to kill, as a sort of 292nd century Jack the Ripper, even as members of organized named groups owning cities and tower fields, without repercussions, be able to roam free everywhere, have access to the same gear if not more, sell to both sides, listen in on their chat, be able to pick and choose when to change side and keep whatever gear you won fighting for that side, then go back to neutral as you please. You basically want your cake and eat it too. I can see nothing but major unbalanced problems, the only thing that would warrant a change back to neutral is a very high price like loosing victory points and tokens and the ability to generate new as well loss of ability to pvp, if you still want to be able to go everywhere and sell to everybody.

Another thing to consider is to make the faction point system work on Rubi-Ka as well, i.e. as a neutral start to kill clan or omni the points start weighing on either side, once a threshold is reached, guards will start shooting and flagging the neutral character and he will have a harder time moving around.

[Gora]

One other thing to consider is to remove the victory points from neutral characters as well, it should be considered a sided point system like tokens, as well as any benefits that comes with victory points, i.e. neutrals cannot collect victory points. Changing side between clan/omni should resolve in loss of vicory points and gear as well, but not the ability to regenerate points.

I have plenty of VP without having done BS. I'm ok with 50-100 VP per alien mission. Since there is no side or faction in alien missions your argument here is as weak as it was when you posted it the hour previous.

Another thing to consider is to make the faction point system work on Rubi-Ka as well, i.e. as a neutral start to kill clan or omni the points start weighing on either side, once a threshold is reached, guards will start shooting and flagging the neutral character and he will have a harder time moving around.

I see no problem with this. Most Neutrals are smart enough to keep their SL faction balanced so that they have *continued* access to both gardens; these same neuts would surely do the same thing on RK.

I understand that you're trying to say you're against faction-switching, but all I hear is "hateneuthateneuthateneut."

I'm sure this has been said many times before but it bears repeating: this+an extra shopping channel+double the keys/whompahs/grid exits*-T3-Superior nano crystal terminals < T3+one of these. If you think Neuts are OP then I invite you to roll one...it'd surely be your first.


*Other than the XP from keys (22 keys vs. 11 & what percentage of folks get all of 'em anyway?) this makes very little difference. Smuggler's Den, PW borgs, Medusa Territory...they're all PsITA to get to for everybody.