Crit vs ma

[gimpmasta]

So I've been lvling my ma lately, and just hit tl 7 (yey)...and have been wondering for a very long time how I'm going to set him up endgame. I mostly pvm, although one day I might pvp...but definitely not focused there for now.
So, my question is, how should I balance martial arts skill vs crit % adds? There are numerous items that add 1 or 2 crit % and I don't know if i should go with the crit or the martial arts. A couple examples are the db sleeves (1% crit 20 def..among other things), the db chest (adds 2), legs...etc. I could basically have a (at least near) full set of armor that adds crit chance instead of martial arts. If i put, for example, cm in all those slots (cept chest, I have a dchest) I'd be getting an extra 90 ma from sleeves/legs.
So, which is better to go for? ma or crit chance?


I also have a similar question with phys init vs ma, in terms of is it better to get (for example) pen ofab boots vs cm boots, as the phys init gets me closer to 1/1 at full def.

Thanks!

[Divine]

roll an enfo

<3

[Poufpaf]

After a lot of testing, I can say that above 2k skill, martial arts is mostly irrelevant to your damage. Crit is what gives you the most, and add damage if it comes in large quantities. I could take off an entire cm set and still have only slightly less damage. I still use some parts for better AR, hp, and a bit of add damage (plus a boost to all the melee specials), but I have put off most of it now, rest is used for crit and evades. Dont bother too much with physic init too, as you need a lot to be able to reach full def, and I doubt lowering from 15% to 10% your agg bar will make much of a difference. If you want defense, choose evades, like slippers of screaming or things like that.

[gimpmasta]

roll an enfo

<3

Did i mention i really don't like running out of nano all the time? (ouch at temp damage buff reqs for ma on that note) -_- although who knows, I haven't decided what I'm gonna lvl next...

Didn't know there was a 'cap' of sorts on ma skill, good to know.

[Kari]

I actually ran numbers for the DB chest vs a dchest once, DB chest wins only on very low AC mobs. Buuut, dchest has all that +dmg on top of MA.

Not even logged my MA in some time now so bear in mind this is a bit unreliable, but iirc 1% crit is worth around 22 +dmg in high-ac SL ( that's probably with two shens though ), and more like 32 on aliens. All you really have to do then is to work out how much extra damage you get from +MA, and then remember CC & CM also has +dmg. This stuff was all gone into at great lengths over the years, if you feel like spending an afternoon browsing some time ( try stuff like Aura mag vs RBP threads ).

[Darkkblood]

I would say crit wins 99% of the time if you're going for dmg. The benefit of adding crit % is the same when you have 1% crit chance till when you have 100% crit chance. If you need more AR on the other hand MA might be the better choice. A lot of this can be figured out using math and the database.

[gimpmasta]

I figure Ar shouldn't be too much of a problem just from the standpoint that I'll be doing pvm more than anything, And i like the db stuff because alot of it adds def...having said that so does cm. Guess i'll have to look into it when I'm a little closer to having everything setup...and make a DD lol.

[Undercutting]

After a lot of testing, I can say that above 2k skill, martial arts is mostly irrelevant to your damage.

No it isnt. There's no damage reduction on martial arts damage template.

[Lheann]

After a lot of testing, I can say that above 2k skill, martial arts is mostly irrelevant to your damage. Crit is what gives you the most, and add damage if it comes in large quantities. I could take off an entire cm set and still have only slightly less damage. I still use some parts for better AR, hp, and a bit of add damage (plus a boost to all the melee specials), but I have put off most of it now, rest is used for crit and evades. Dont bother too much with physic init too, as you need a lot to be able to reach full def, and I doubt lowering from 15% to 10% your agg bar will make much of a difference. If you want defense, choose evades, like slippers of screaming or things like that.

Actually 15% to 10% will make a difference. Remeber the AggDef bar is based on 12.5% increments for some of the calculations like the affect on your defense rating.

MA skill above 2000 does change our damage. I am 2240ish before moonmist at level 216 and when I pop moonmist I see about 120 points more a hit for the duration. Also remember a % to crit bonus is computed by checking your Attack Rating against the defense rating of the target. When your attack rating is above the defense rating you start getting a % to crit bonus. Keeping your MA skill as high as you can and using as much AAO gear as you can afford to in your setup does help.

As for inits. I am 1/1 with fist and shen stick at 25%-30% and can suffer a crit scope and be 1/1 at 50%. So yep they matter. Ql300 Viral Comp for nano init buffage. Be able to cast your heals instantly and stop raising nano init. Phys init I raise every time. Figure I can get to 1/1 at 15% by 220 with out the crit scope and 30-35% with crit scope.

[Neon_1]

After a lot of testing, I can say that above 2k skill, martial arts is mostly irrelevant to your damage. Crit is what gives you the most, and add damage if it comes in large quantities. I could take off an entire cm set and still have only slightly less damage. I still use some parts for better AR, hp, and a bit of add damage (plus a boost to all the melee specials), but I have put off most of it now, rest is used for crit and evades. Dont bother too much with physic init too, as you need a lot to be able to reach full def, and I doubt lowering from 15% to 10% your agg bar will make much of a difference. If you want defense, choose evades, like slippers of screaming or things like that.

Well that is not accurate at all. When doing lots of inf mishes with org mate, who had more MA(like 200sh+), and I had like 10%+ better crit rate, i lost in DD by miles. I have never been a DD junkie, but saying that MA doesnt matter compared to crit is just a big lol.

[Poufpaf]

It depends at which level and what you're wielding. If you"re dualing shens, then you'll be capping MA skill on 2/3 of your hits, so adding 200 won't do you any good.

[gimpmasta]

Well I figure by 220 I'll be running around 2.2k ma skill, pre-moonmist. Any ideas what the approximate AR amount is that gets 1% crit? If it's that simple...

[Gunner7]

2.2k ma skill at 220? wth are u wearing? carb?

[Scotty]

Well not everyone can afford CC set and ql300 symbs. Personally I've got 2561 MA in my full dmg gear (no towers no MM ofc). But/and I've got all possible gear I could get except for LoX stuff (haven't bought it yet.)

Edit: oh and combat hud is not included either

[gimpmasta]

Well who knows i got 2k atm at 210 (pre-moonmist)...rough figuring. 10 lvls at 25 per lvl is..250. Ok musta been late lol so with trickle 2.3k with current gear? Regardless obviously i could put on ma-buffing armor in some slots, the question is would it be worth it with that much...

[Soliartist]

Count Perks as well, if you wanna compare with 220. Apart from that, crit is way more important than MA Skill, DD wise. Every single critical % won is good to get, even if it's 1% against 1 CC piece, for PURE DD setup, I mean. That sounds obvious though!

It's what I used for my week of PvM test, full crit setup, worked wonderful. Managed to solo Biggot and Obsolote SD at once, self buffed, so I guess it ain't that bad, plus I had DB Boots because I no longer had my CC ones, lol.

So yeah, definitely crit over MA skill dude. It won't make your MA skill incredibly low either, with a decent setup, so it's only dmg bonus.

[Lheann]

Well I figure by 220 I'll be running around 2.2k ma skill, pre-moonmist. Any ideas what the approximate AR amount is that gets 1% crit? If it's that simple...

It was not a hard number. More of a ratio or Attack Rating vs Defense Rating. You can see this by going to a RK backyard and whacking level 1 leets with your TL7 setup. You should crit nearly every hit if not every hit.

As for the formula for it. Sorry I never figured it out. Likewise for evades, the higher the evades over attack rating results in a reduction of crit chance. Again we all see this in game at some point. Most people ignore duck explosion evade to save IP at the early levels. With Duck Explosion not raised pull a RK mission and find a trader mob in it. Watch as he crits the crap out of you. And that is where the old advice of raise your Duck Explosion to 1/3 of your other two comes from. In fact it comes from all the way back in the 12.x days when people wanted to avoid being pwned by trader mobs in missions.

This was covered long before SL came out and I am sure that the search function may find some other info ont he subject.

[egadsrk2]

How does one calculate the needed Phys init to be full def?

My standing MA is 2613(2833). The inits however, just 1353.

[Soliartist]

http://www.unityoftherose.com/tools/aggdefcalc.htm !

[Darkkblood]

I really don't think the difference in agg and def affects your crit chance. After years of running damage dumper while playing vs many different kinds of mobs in different points in my MA life the only mobs that changed my crit chance up or down were monsters with innate crit resistance. It may be that if your off is much higher than the def of the mob your crit rate goes up but I think if your fighting non grey mobs the increase is negligible. It doesn't seem to work the other way around either. Like if you have low offence compared to the mobs defense crit rate doesn't seem to change only the number of misses. Run damage dumper where ever you go and you'll see what I mean.