Changes to Perk targeting and effect on Agents

[Mastablasta]

Heh, to think that people thought this was a fair and reasonable thing to have in game can I have it on starfall please? Then I could chain it on someone and just poof make supernova pop on someone when it would actually be useful...

[CriticalDmg]

Sorry folks, this was an obvious bug / exploit and should have been fixed some time ago
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Likewise I don't think we have any specific concerns regarding agent damage (either in PVM or PVP) at the current time.

Not gonna argue with that one, BUT, can you please make it work as it was in PvM ? This 'fix' just killed almost all of the chain perks in game, especially those that require an extremely low hp percentage (obliterate 15%), they're just impossible to land now.
Reverting back, just for PvM (not pvp) or somehow making them execute at different execution timers for each scenario (depending on the target) or at the very least remove all those requirements of HP %.

Just so everyone understands it's not just agents - it's for every prof out there, no perk chain can be swapped from one target to another (and if you're still bitter about your agent then think of what shades got now with their infinite perk chains...).

Oh, the change to perk-swap is entirely understandable imo. Melee hitting kiting agents with perks from 40m away? Please...

Do you even understand that a melee toon that has an equal or HIGHER run speed then you and is perfectly following you (or using /follow, even though it got totally FUBARed with the damn 'slowdown' effect that stops us before we even reach the target) can't ever actually stay in range because you, by kiting, are exploiting the rubberbanding/lag of the game ? Let me say it again - EXPLOITING a game's rule, the client-server sync, to get an advantage you wouldn't be able to have otherwise ?
(and with 17.8 the sync became extremely bugged, terminals, mobs, whompas, etc - they just don't seem to be where they really are)

Oh and, WTB zerg protection for agents..

Team BS pvp is really fun and all, but unlike other professions with more passiveish defenses, we rely on casting CH every 8s for healing.

So what do we get when we meet three persons......

IMHO no-one should be able to outlive a zerg, be it a trader or an adv/keep/sold, unfortunately FC can't seem to find a balance good enough for it to work, but - that doesn't mean they have to make even more OP profs instead of fixing the currently OP'd ones (even if that means nerfing the living sh*t out of them).

[Mamman]

Maybe including these perks in the list of "75% damage when not every criteria is met" perks?

[Pheddex]

Please remember we don't consider 1v1 performance in PVP for balance in any way shape or form. The AO professions are, as already mentioned, inherently imbalanced and we would never really take 1v1 performance as a grounds for balancing changes. (quite apart from the fact I think with a system as complex as AOs it would be nigh on impossible)

qft.. you just saed it yourself mang.... agents still perform ok in duels.... but i can not kill any person on BS no more now!!

What is the point in always preaching , "we try to ballance out mass PvP" and by that nerf our alpha power (talking bout the shot here, not assasinate or DS, they are as useless now as they been b4) while giving out tonns of HP to all professions.
You call us a "deadly stinging" profession in another thread, but with the uselessness of the shot , you take away another 3-4k PvP dmg...

You could say: reperk and adapt.. yes , i would love to, but with dropping made line, would mean an agent cant use SharpObjects as effective as b4 (i cant use em at all without gimping my setup now) and it would be another step into nerfing evade setup agents out there, because the loss of evades by dropping that perkline would be essential to them...

And all those people that dont play agent: Plz stop bringing Assasinate / Deathshot into the PvP aspect, i am aware, some agents "exployted" with em and you are 100% true, that needed to be fixed! From my point of view tho, theese perks been obsolete when PvPing from the first time on! And i wont cry about the PvM dmg nerf here now as i play this game to PvP mainly.

[Yue]

Yes, we see that as well (the fact a death is recorded inherently records it as both a plus for those doing the killing and records who died). There are of course profession with good PVP performance and also different or better defensive abilities. Not denying that for a second. It doesn't however mean that your damage output is any better or worse for that. We have never denied there are inherent imbalances in the abilities of professions due to the way they were originally designed. It doesn't change the fact that agents are a very strong PVP profession, it just means they are not the only one.
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just quoting this to show how you use pvp titles as basis of your argumentation.
i enjoy this.

Maybe including these perks in the list of "75% damage when not every criteria is met" perks?

unfortunately in pvp they would be too powerful in this case imho..^^

[Cyberleet]

as clearly said if we see that the profession needs further balance because of the changes then we will consider them.

But just because there is balance-
- it has to be possible to listen to feedback and make those 3 perks usable again?

Is profession-updates limited to just that?

Just a reminder:
Agents aren't whining over the perk-swap change. We love it, no more melee hitting us with perks from 40m away.

The problem is 3 perks rendered useless. And that should be looked into, regardless imo

the only good thing about the change is that we will finally stop seeing these trashy moniquelike evac pvp vids but then again you could've solved that differently ...^^

Keep your jealosy to yourself, and get some clue. Anyone with it will see this:

No The Shot
No Death Strike
No Assassinate

In any of the videos.

They're pure entertainment, if you get a problem {Edited by Natteravn: Flame} watch something else. Please...

[Yue]

{Edited by Natteravn: Removed trolling}

but ye i can understand the frustration with the shot and assassinate. imho whats worse is the fact that a few profs got insanely high dmg procs unlocked this patch but whatever.

[Tlatoani]

Please remember we don't consider 1v1 performance in PVP for balance in any way shape or form. The AO professions are, as already mentioned, inherently imbalanced and we would never really take 1v1 performance as a grounds for balancing changes. (quite apart from the fact I think with a system as complex as AOs it would be nigh on impossible)

...You don't consider 1vs1 (player vs player) performance for balance in PVP...

Then WHAT exactly do you consider for balancing professions in PVP?

(Nobody noticed this? or maybe I'm not understanding what Silirrion is saying)

[Omutb]

...You don't consider 1vs1 (player vs player) performance for balance in PVP...

Then WHAT exactly do you consider for balancing professions in PVP?

(Nobody noticed this? or maybe I'm not understanding what Silirrion is saying)

Its been mentioned before..."team/group pvp".

[Graftmage]

Not an exploit, monique, heh?

[Tradersoft]

Again, none of the changes are intended as direct negative changes for any specific profession. These things were fixed because they were broken or exploitable no more or no less and as clearly said if we see that the profession needs further balance because of the changes then we will consider them.

So is balance nerfing a already nerfed profession? Making a perk that's already OK and not exploitable borderline useless in PvP and nerfing two others perks rendering them useless in both PvM and PvP? I can understand why you changed Assassinate and Death strike, but nerfing them? They were already useless enough in the first place, if agents wanted to use them we had to perk swap... 'exploiting' just to use a perk? Seriously, didn't it say enough about how bad shape they were in already?

When LE came out, new debuffs came... then even more debuffs, and as an agent that's a major nerf already as we don't have anything at our disposal to protect ourself against them except perking NR1-2 which is a big strain to our nanoskills, does it give full protection to hostile nanos? Not at all, could we live with that? Absolutely, but keep in mind that agents are the most vulnerable professions against debuffs. But when you start nerfing our offensive abilities we don't have much left.

[Blackcradle]

As usual 90% of people on this thread havent read anything and post something dumb about perk swapping. This thread isn't about perk swapping it's about the fact that these two perks are now completely useless in EVERY scenario. Yes every.

However, the bigger deal is that The Shot got nerfed for no reason at all (AND NO THIS WASNT A SWAPPABLE PERK). We have enough slow perks we dont have time to land as it is, now one of our best perks is rendered useless. Luckily a few other profs got their fast perks fixed. But hey we got two 5-second execution time 'uber' DD perks from useless perklines this patch...

[Tiemeup]

Make the all the final perks in chains 1 sec execute, and all the perks before it nearly instant

Or shorten the recharge on some of the long execute perks and their chains before it so that you get more chances to use them if they fail

Or make perks no longer lock out if they don't actually do any damage. (Best solution imo)

[schloops]

Didn't understand what happened to third perk so can't speak about that one.

As for the two previously swappable perks, just changing the text so it works as expected wouldn't make them a bug/exploit anymore. I actually find the way they worked with swapping target quite fun. Probably required some skillz to use them that way (or I didn't understand correctly - very possible).

I don't agree with agents calling their profession gimpy (not at all!!), but even if they have comparatively easy versus nts, don't see them as requiring a perk nerf.

I do believe you will get a lil boost if needed though (heck even nts/traders/mps, the previously hate children for ages received plenty lub; <3 Sil).

[Cyberleet]

Not an exploit, monique, heh?

Got me now hm :>
Well, that was what many was told.

It was exactly the same with how procs originaly fired, they said it was how it was supposed to be.
I fully agree that this was changed tho. But Joachim makes the point.

Since those two specific perks were mostly used for that, doesn't that tell that something is very wrong with them?

Didn't understand what happened to third perk so can't speak about that one.

We could start it while in sneak without being in combat mode, very unique and agentish. Thats been changed.
And those little details make the profession very fun.

The very mechanic in how it worked made is so special. A signature agent attack that compliments the class very well.

We also have nanos that have zero recharge, and they do not break sneak.
Perfect for us as a stealth-class right?

IF this change is really thought over, then I would not be suprised if Sil soon called those nanos unintended too.
Thats how riddiculos these changes are from agents view and thats how credible FC-posters seems to be. No offense with that but it's just how it is atm.

Most agents (about the shot) is more like "huh" Really.

About death-strike and assasinate; I think this thread and these changes tells it all.
Those two perked needs to be reworked.

It's not very fun when things are like that. It can be turned into something more positive

I don't agree with agents calling their profession gimpy (not at all!!),.

Oh, we have strong sides and weak sides. But that shouldn't prevent us updates/changes.
The Shot, it was a exellent perk for agents to use in the way it worked. Perfectly adjusted to our stealth-mode.

I really can't belive this has been discussed internally, or are they completely out of touch with agents?

[landdog]

PVM-wise, Death Strike and Assassinate have become [almost] mathematically impossible to use in mass raids and team missions. As if it wasn't hard enough to land Called Shot or APS+FF on a mob called in a Pande raid, before said mob was already down. I wonder how often the scenario of swapping Assassinate or DS in pvp really happened.

PVM agents, like myself, really didn't expect anything like this. Take in account the fact that the so called uber agent pvp defense, ie CH, is almost suicidal in 80-90% of situations in SL.

[schloops]

We could start it while in sneak without being in combat mode, very unique and agentish. Thats been changed.
And those little details make the profession very fun.

The very mechanic in how it worked made is so special. A signature agent attack that compliments the class very well.

Ooooh hehe okie got it now.

[Blackcradle]

Yeah sorry your NT gets owned by agents or whatever...but this thread isn't about <insert prof> vs <insert prof>, it's about what the title says. So please hold with the flames and inappropriate discussions. The problem at hand isn't that funcom fixed perk-swapping. That was obviously wrong and should've been corrected. The problem is now that 2 of our perks are completely, yes totally and utterly, useless. YES IN ALL SITUATIONS. To boot our only good Ai prof perk was changed to work like no other ai perks do as well, for no reason and with no warning. This is beside the fact that a few other chain-progression perks (one with 8 total seconds execution time) and another lone perk w/ 5 seconds exec. time are unusable.

PS. Fix 'The Shot' please...

[Hacre]

Yeah sorry your NT gets owned by agents or whatever...but this thread isn't about <insert prof> vs <insert prof>, it's about what the title says. So please hold with the flames and inappropriate discussions. The problem at hand isn't that funcom fixed perk-swapping. That was obviously wrong and should've been corrected. The problem is now that 2 of our perks are completely, yes totally and utterly, useless. YES IN ALL SITUATIONS. To boot our only good Ai prof perk was changed to work like no other ai perks do as well, for no reason and with no warning. This is beside the fact that a few other chain-progression perks (one with 8 total seconds execution time) and another lone perk w/ 5 seconds exec. time are unusable.

PS. Fix 'The Shot' please...

I didn't bring up agent vs soldier

OT: Nerfs are bad, mkay.

[newarival]

OT: Nerfs are bad, mkay.

No way, Nerfing 4 year old game mechanics without warning is a sure way to build consumer confidence.

And Stuart's Law of Retroaction is what customer relations is all about!

All these agents posting in this thread are bound to stick around just to see who it's gonna be next!

It's so exciting knowing it could be one of the professions you reroll to.
Or it might not be .....


*sits on the edge of seat*