Changes to Perk targeting and effect on Agents

[Tradersoft]

Agents are very strong in PVP and we would have to think long and hard about any additional change that would further boost that power.

I've yet to see you say why you think we're very strong in PvP

We're pretty easy kills with a slow average perk alpha and got the ability to AS, pretty unique huh? For example even adventurers got a better perk alpha than us combined with a much better defense than us. They even use AS hotswap which is pretty common these days.

[Ober]

It's not really 'think' its more we know you are statistically the best performing PVP profession by some margin. Its not even ambiguous or open to interpretation. On a profession by profession basis Agents top every measurable when it comes to PVP, most importantly the number of people they kill. This is especially impressive when considered relative to the percentage of the player-base that agents make up. Statistically there is not a profession even all that close to matching the killing power of agents in the actual PVP that occurs on the servers.

Those statistics seperate TL7 and TL1-5 agents?
Or they have the same issues as trader, being lumped into the same statistics as the TL1-TL5(?) trader twinks?

[Lupusceleri]

Those statistics seperate TL7 and TL1-5 agents?
Or they have the same issues as trader, being lumped into the same statistics as the TL1-TL5(?) trader twinks?

QFT

Silirrion, I have a thread for you.

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...d.php?t=518363

Read it, and say that TL7 agent PvM damage is great again.

Next, if you say TL7 agents have the highest kill ratio in your statistics, do you keep in mind that a lot of agents just farmed damage on their victim, while hugging the whompahs and sneak? After someone else kills the damage-farmed target, the agent gets the kill rights.

[Tradersoft]

Next, if you say TL7 agents have the highest kill ratio in your statistics, do you keep in mind that a lot of agents just farmed damage on their victim, while hugging the whompahs and sneak? After someone else kills the damage-farmed target, the agent gets the kill rights.

He's not aware of that, he's too busy nerfing us over what he think is good and accurate statistics.

[Silirrion]

He's not aware of that, he's too busy nerfing us over what he think is good and accurate statistics.

Again, none of the changes are intended as direct negative changes for any specific profession. These things were fixed because they were broken or exploitable no more or no less and as clearly said if we see that the profession needs further balance because of the changes then we will consider them.

...and yes, the statistics do also include the level of the combatants so we do take that into account as well. Information like that also factors into whether and at what level we chose to make any changes in the future.

[thesun1]

agents are top dogs in mass pvp no doubt, but duels is where it becomes challenging. thankfully fc doesnt care bout duels.

But then again who isnt a top dog in mass pvp? Any well setup character except a few very gimped profs(ie trader) will dominate.

[thesun1]

Again, none of the changes are intended as direct negative changes for any specific profession. These things were fixed because they were broken or exploitable no more or no less and as clearly said if we see that the profession needs further balance because of the changes then we will consider them.

...and yes, the statistics do also include the level of the combatants so we do take that into account as well. Information like that also factors into whether and at what level we chose to make any changes in the future.

How bout factoring deaths in that equation? How many times agents did die, and how many times Keepers Solds and Advs didnt? Whats the kill/death ratio?

[Silirrion]

How bout factoring deaths in that equation? How many times agents did die, and how many times Keepers Solds and Advs didnt? Whats the kill/death ratio?

Yes, we see that as well (the fact a death is recorded inherently records it as both a plus for those doing the killing and records who died). There are of course profession with good PVP performance and also different or better defensive abilities. Not denying that for a second. It doesn't however mean that your damage output is any better or worse for that. We have never denied there are inherent imbalances in the abilities of professions due to the way they were originally designed. It doesn't change the fact that agents are a very strong PVP profession, it just means they are not the only one.

Just as there are other professions that we would also think long and hard about improving their PVP abilities, agents fall into that category.

It doesn't mean it will never happen, it just means that if it was to happen it would be carefully considered and reviewed over time rather then rushed out.

[NoGoal]

hehe that's hilarious how you can be really careful about agent's improvements and how you can use a fork to improve some professions (MP, ADVY, SOLD, KEEPER...). Those professions are GODMODE nowadays, oh my ****ing god, open your eyes silirrion!!!

I'm sure that you know all these profs a lot better than Sil.

[Klodovik]

Just as there are other professions that we would also think long and hard about improving their PVP abilities, agents fall into that category.

It doesn't mean it will never happen, it just means that if it was to happen it would be carefully considered and reviewed over time rather then rushed out.

Now, it would be perfect for you guys to rework CoNC (Champion of NANO Combat) perkline as well, so perk actions there start to check nano skill "AR", instead of weapon AR.

I mean, while you are at it (fixing perk stuff).

[Alternity]

Go Silirrion!

Having a forum full of agent going Emo because their sploit was removed is just Epic!

[Lupusceleri]

hehe that's hilarious how you can be really careful about agent's improvements and how you can use a fork to improve some professions (MP, ADVY, SOLD, KEEPER...). Those professions are GODMODE nowadays, oh my ****ing god, open your eyes silirrion!!!

I /dueled a really gimp shield MP yesterday, but even if I alpha'd his healpet two times, he still had ample time to recast it with me pewpew'ing him.. Couldn't perk him however.

In the end I died thanks to eNSD/Beneficial Scourge and pets bashing on me :< And yes I did kite the pets.

Sold.. noob soldier is still easyish to kill, a good soldier on the other hand will land Remedy Inhibitor through 3.1k NR, without even trying a zillion times. And then simply AMS up and lol at you while he empties his clip. And no, unlike popular belief we can't alpha a soldier in ~3s unless we use some superhotswap (read: PE+Booster and a shatload of luck)

Keeper is a beyotch to kill on BS, but in a duel they will most of the time die to AS spam It just takes an age... Good keeper using a Supernova hotswap is damn hard to survive as well

Advy.. all we can do tbh to win vs a good melee one in a duel, is kite our ass off while trying to land UBT, then pewpew AS and hope they fall over after a while ;p And of course some advies are perkable

[Ebondevil]

I think I'll start PvP'ing more, Maybe the statistics will change drastically

[Verta]

Yes, we see that as well (the fact a death is recorded inherently records it as both a plus for those doing the killing and records who died). There are of course profession with good PVP performance and also different or better defensive abilities. Not denying that for a second. It doesn't however mean that your damage output is any better or worse for that. We have never denied there are inherent imbalances in the abilities of professions due to the way they were originally designed. It doesn't change the fact that agents are a very strong PVP profession, it just means they are not the only one.

Just as there are other professions that we would also think long and hard about improving their PVP abilities, agents fall into that category.

It doesn't mean it will never happen, it just means that if it was to happen it would be carefully considered and reviewed over time rather then rushed out.

Sil, not to derail the agents crying thread, but just out of curiosity, can your stats tell the difference between ranged and melee advies?

[wolfmyth]

By every (and I do mean every) measurable statistic we have Agents are by some margin the strongest PVP profession in the game so I really don't think you guys need me to tell you your 'role' in PVP is as you are all exceeding good at it already.

Agents are very much the same as they have always been, a very lethal Direct damage profession and that holds true for both PVP and PVM.

There was no direct intention to 'nerf' anyone, these kind of changes have to be made to ensure we can run the game systems better in the future. They were broken, they have been fixed. Should additional balancing changes be required after the changes then we will consider them. In this instance I'll be honest and I doubt it will make a real distinct difference to Agents position on the PVP ladder as it were. If however we saw that it did over time then we would of course consider additional changes.

Couldn't agree more. Agents are in the top three best pvp classes. Bugs/exploits should always be fixed.

[Yue]

do your statistics even distinguish amount?

id like to see the statistics you talk about. coz honestly i wonder what statistics contain other than ppls title.

the only good thing about the change is that we will finally stop seeing these trashy {edited personal insult} evac pvp vids but then again you could've solved that differently ...^^

not whining, just saying.

[Tlatoani]

WTB the statistics one month from now for duels.

Then you'll see how wrong the ones you have now are.

[wolfmyth]

I've yet to see you say why you think we're very strong in PvP

We're pretty easy kills with a slow average perk alpha and got the ability to AS, pretty unique huh? For example even adventurers got a better perk alpha than us combined with a much better defense than us. They even use AS hotswap which is pretty common these days.

I want to see this magical perk alpha on a range adv...
Adv also don't have UBT+CH wich is something agents should never of received same as the Demon pet(which was removed thankfully).

[Silirrion]

WTB the statistics one month from now for duels.

Then you'll see how wrong the ones you have now are.

Please remember we don't consider 1v1 performance in PVP for balance in any way shape or form. The AO professions are, as already mentioned, inherently imbalanced and we would never really take 1v1 performance as a grounds for balancing changes. (quite apart from the fact I think with a system as complex as AOs it would be nigh on impossible)

[Vaalena]

Yes, we see that as well (the fact a death is recorded inherently records it as both a plus for those doing the killing and records who died).

Again:
I am pretty sure you have no way to distinguish from dmg farming and proper kills.
I am also sure that FC employees do not spend 3-4 hours in live BS every day
(But correct me if I am wrong)
To be perfectly honest, this mean that your statistics does not reflect the real situation. Not even close.