Changes to Perk targeting and effect on Agents

[Vaalena]

er skill checks on a target was always very clearly not an intended game mechanic.

Likewise I don't think we have any specific concerns regarding agent damage (either in PVM or PVP) at the current time.

OK, this was not funny...

[Tradersoft]

Sil, can you tell us what agents role in PvP is?

[Pheddex]

Sorry folks, this was an obvious bug / exploit and should have been fixed some time ago (it wasn't due to technical difficulty in doing so, but once we found a solution it was always going to be resolved). Using a secondary target to avoid resist or other skill checks on a target was always very clearly not an intended game mechanic.

Likewise I don't think we have any specific concerns regarding agent damage (either in PVM or PVP) at the current time.

maybe you can enlighten me , how those pers are supposed to be used in 2days PvP szenario where people die fast like flies , or in a group PvM scenario, when mobs go down to 15% and die within 3 more seconds.... these perks are even more useless now then they been b4!

[Silirrion]

By every (and I do mean every) measurable statistic we have Agents are by some margin the strongest PVP profession in the game so I really don't think you guys need me to tell you your 'role' in PVP is as you are all exceeding good at it already.

Agents are very much the same as they have always been, a very lethal Direct damage profession and that holds true for both PVP and PVM.

There was no direct intention to 'nerf' anyone, these kind of changes have to be made to ensure we can run the game systems better in the future. They were broken, they have been fixed. Should additional balancing changes be required after the changes then we will consider them. In this instance I'll be honest and I doubt it will make a real distinct difference to Agents position on the PVP ladder as it were. If however we saw that it did over time then we would of course consider additional changes.

[Baalath]

anyone with enough concealment is exactly the same or VERY close to that with way less sacrifices

[Tradersoft]

maybe you can enlighten me , how those pers are supposed to be used in 2days PvP szenario where people die fast like flies , or in a group PvM scenario, when mobs go down to 15% and die within 3 more seconds.... these perks are even more useless now then they been b4!

Yeah, there's no way those perks would turn out useful now. Having to 'exploit' to have use of perks in PvM or PvP says a lot, and instead of doing something about it they simply nerfed it, rendering them useless. Funny

By every (and I do mean every) measurable statistic we have Agents are by some margin the strongest PVP profession in the game so I really don't think you guys need me to tell you your 'role' in PVP is as you are all exceeding good at it already.

Agents are very much the same as they have always been, a very lethal Direct damage profession and that holds true for both PVP and PVM.

Except there's professions with better perk alpha and some even got a better defense. Oh and don't forget MP's with their bow which is the best AS weapon in-game at the moment. So what exactly what makes us so special in PvP?

If you don't intend to change agents and how they are in PvP, why do you keep nerfing us? Everytime you give love to other professions you nerf us, everytime you gave new debuffs/nanos to other professions you're nerfing us even further.

[Cyberleet]

Oh, the change to perk-swap is entirely understandable imo. Melee hitting kiting agents with perks from 40m away? Please...

But this has a side-effect on agents and render some very cool perks practically useless, -
- and that is something that should be looked into.

Here's to nice ways to work around this:

Either to remove the health-requirements and keep the speed.
Speed them up to 1(one) sec and keep the health-requirements...voila'.

Don't get me started on the shot

And just because the profession your a fan of has useless perks doesn't give you the right to troll agent-threads.
Far from it, go voice your opinion for that profession and stop being a...

Agents are very much the same as they have always been, a very lethal Direct damage profession and that holds true for both PVP and PVM.

It's nice to hear, and I hope you continue it :>

Agents been left in the dark for so long.
No no mimic-updates cause we have "very letahl direct damage", no updates to rifles/DD-repetoir "because you have mimic".

Evil circle.

Having said that, it's been other nice improvements to that and agent-defining repetoir' lately

[Pheddex]

By every (and I do mean every) measurable statistic we have Agents are by some margin the strongest PVP profession in the game so I really don't think you guys need me to tell you your 'role' in PVP is as you are all exceeding good at it already.

Agents are very much the same as they have always been, a very lethal Direct damage profession and that holds true for both PVP and PVM.

There was no direct intention to 'nerf' anyone, these kind of changes have to be made to ensure we can run the game systems better in the future. They were broken, they have been fixed. Should additional balancing changes be required after the changes then we will consider them. In this instance I'll be honest and I doubt it will make a real distinct difference to Agents position on the PVP ladder as it were. If however we saw that it did over time then we would of course consider additional changes.

im sry.. you just almost broke our profession

[Tradersoft]

By every (and I do mean every) measurable statistic we have Agents are by some margin the strongest PVP profession in the game

Care to explain why you think we're the strongest profession in PvP? That'd be great, thanks

[Mohoki]

im sry.. you just almost broke our profession

Agreed, bump !

[Silirrion]

Care to explain why you think we're the strongest profession in PvP? That'd be great, thanks

It's not really 'think' its more we know you are statistically the best performing PVP profession by some margin. Its not even ambiguous or open to interpretation. On a profession by profession basis Agents top every measurable when it comes to PVP, most importantly the number of people they kill. This is especially impressive when considered relative to the percentage of the player-base that agents make up. Statistically there is not a profession even all that close to matching the killing power of agents in the actual PVP that occurs on the servers.

[MajorOutage]

They must be using the same statistics that told them engineers are overpowered.

[Cyberleet]

In this instance I'll be honest and I doubt it will make a real distinct difference to Agents position on the PVP ladder as it were.

But don't you think perks like these and the shot that has (had) a very unique mechanic means just as much for agents?

And no, I agree with disabling perk-swap.
My concern is, can you look at our concerns and look into these perks? You know, rework them?

The way these perks operate now make them as good as absent in pvm, it's even more limited in pvp.
We can spam them on low evade healers I guess.(hello docs).

[Tradersoft]

It's not really 'think' its more we know you are statistically the best performing PVP profession by some margin. Its not even ambiguous or open to interpretation. On a profession by profession basis Agents top every measurable when it comes to PVP, most importantly the number of people they kill. This is especially impressive when considered relative to the percentage of the player-base that agents make up. Statistically there is not a profession even all that close to matching the killing power of agents in the actual PVP that occurs on the servers.

Why? Is it our super awesome fast perk alpha and our unique ability to AS?

[Vaalena]

It's not really 'think' its more we know you are statistically the best performing PVP profession by some margin. Its not even ambiguous or open to interpretation. On a profession by profession basis Agents top every measurable when it comes to PVP, most importantly the number of people they kill. This is especially impressive when considered relative to the percentage of the player-base that agents make up. Statistically there is not a profession even all that close to matching the killing power of agents in the actual PVP that occurs on the servers.

You can use statistics to prove anything. :-)

You look in your stats and I bet you see who got the credit for a kill. I bet you can not differentiate the dmg farming from the real kill, can you? Because dmg farming is so common and is not real PvP. It is just farming. AS-ConcShot is perfect for farming but now there is nothing to follow it.

And please, elaborate on the PvM as well. Are we better DD than Soldiers, Crats, MAs, advys, Shades?

[Silirrion]

But don't you think perks like these and the shot that has (had) a very unique mechanic means just as much for agents?

Two slightly different scenarios here, 'perk swapping' was clearly an exploit, don't even consider that one debatable. It was an exploit we had worked to fix for some time.

The issue with the other perk was simply that the 'benefit' you enjoyed was a result of data error, a conflict between two flags that meant neither was applied properly. It had to be fixed in order for us to move forward. Sometimes that is simply the case, that there has been a benefit to a bug, but that doesn't mean that we should ignore it and not fix it if it means we can work better in the future. Leaving it as broken would have meant we could never even try and amend it and wasn't an option.

Now as I very clearly said we will consider changes in the future if needed. If we see a significant enough downturn in agent performance due to these changes we would of course consider further changes. I don't think I can say fairer than that. All I was doing is being honest with you in our assessment if the position of agents in terms of PVP. I really don't think you would rather have me lie about it. Agents are very strong in PVP and we would have to think long and hard about any additional change that would further boost that power.

[Cyberleet]

Sil, I agree with the perk-swap. I didn't mean that. I quote this to ask better.

If we see a significant enough downturn in agent performance due to these changes we would of course consider further changes.

If you see a significant downturn to the usability of these perks, will you concider changes? Thats what I ask
And look above for the reasoning and suggestions

I don't ask for perk-swap again.

[Mohoki]

Agents are very strong in PVP and we would have to think long and hard about any additional change that would further boost that power.

That was long time ago....

[Biggysmallz]

Two slightly different scenarios here, 'perk swapping' was clearly an exploit, don't even consider that one debatable. It was an exploit we had worked to fix for some time.

The issue with the other perk was simply that the 'benefit' you enjoyed was a result of data error, a conflict between two flags that meant neither was applied properly. It had to be fixed in order for us to move forward. Sometimes that is simply the case, that there has been a benefit to a bug, but that doesn't mean that we should ignore it and not fix it if it means we can work better in the future. Leaving it as broken would have meant we could never even try and amend it and wasn't an option.

Now as I very clearly said we will consider changes in the future if needed. If we see a significant enough downturn in agent performance due to these changes we would of course consider further changes. I don't think I can say fairer than that. All I was doing is being honest with you in our assessment if the position of agents in terms of PVP. I really don't think you would rather have me lie about it. Agents are very strong in PVP and we would have to think long and hard about any additional change that would further boost that power.

To Sum up:
Assassinate
Death Strike
the SHOT
______________
You can delete them from your toolset.

Other point about agents being OP'ed. Since we are best killers in pvp, we don't need any defenses! Actually shield MP's are one of the worst professions in PVP at the moment because they can't kill anything. All pvp now is about killing, not defenses.
It makes me kinda thinking that FC is now making their pvp conclusions only on offense power! Those with great offense, crap defense will not get any new improvements. Those with OP'ed defenses, crap offenses ofcourse will get new improvements.

Have you checked death ratio of the agent as well? Many professions have admitted that agents are easiest target, but oh well its all about killing power.

Im not whining or asking for new improvements but its just weird that FC makes their judgments looking only ONE side of the things.

And as I said earlier in other post its all about how you interpret facts. Agents DO /AFK, Conceal-gank-run, meep, hug lifts, on purpose abuse server sync. If Silirrion thinks that these are viable tactics every agent should use in order to survive, then prolly I should find my way out of this profession/game.

[Ragetra]

1 second ago is a long time for a myon