Engineer perks overview

[kuznechik]

MR+Medallion combo was really proven effective by Brainwash (Stabby).
If you didn't believe it - you can try it yourself.
Yes, MR hurts, but considering few DD perks you can start in it's duration and fact that once medallion/FoL lands every1 but fixers/MPs/crats will be eaten by always-critting pets in mere seconds - it's working tactic.
Not every tactic that you didn't tried is lol. Well, nanomages will have hard time testing MR+Medallion combo

Well, more on topic...

So far I saw wishes of unlocking locked perk lines for us, well, it'll be cool, but...
Still - any bugs/inconsistencies I've missed?

About upping mechanic - I see reasoning of "gadg is crap and mech is better, so please up mechanic for better benefit of us " So far gadgeteer line is pathetic beyond belief to the point at which almost no engies will perk it, while mechanic in it's current form already trained by many engies and mandatory in some areas except "total tradeskill whore" mode.

Decided to check other professions for "+nanoskill perklines"
Crats have 51 pm/si from loophole and 36 pm/si/bm from directorship.
Docs are 43 bm/mm from AFM, 50 mm from Embrace, 42 bm/mm from nano surgeon
MPs got 85 from channel rage
NTs can get 85 MC from notum syphon and 52 mc/ts from ancient matrix.

Group perks nano doctorate (100 to all) and starfall (15 to all) aren't avail to engies.

So I'd say +64 mc/ts is decent chunk. Main difference between us and other "nano casters" that while their perks give them nanoskills and some aad/hp/nr/nanoinit/+nanodamage/+healeff (aka useful stuff) - our gives +tradeskills as additional bonus.
Unfortunately for engineers - tradeskills and nanoskills are needed so much during most of our time...

Actually - in fight we have 3 ME-based perks that are unusable in it's current state, 2 QFT-based unusable perks, 1 good chem-based perk, 1 MC-based and 1 T&S based perks we'll be struggling to land on any1. That's it for our nanoskills/tradeskills in combat.
Well, trimmers can be used with almost no IP spent in tradeskills and I tried hard to remember some "on use" items that require either nanoskills or tradeskills.
Nanos we have to execute in fight are either pre-SL times (disruptive auras), rebuff of our pets (MB/iSotOS) every few minutes or IPA/PA to unroot pets.

[IHaveHugeNick]

Not in a duel,which is where he used it.
I don't know how duels vs engis work on RK 1,but on RK 2 i usually tank em.

Well i guess in duel it can be very decent trick, still i dont think i'd dump 16 ai perks just to win one duel every half a year , but that's another story.

[IHaveHugeNick]

About upping mechanic - I see reasoning of "gadg is crap and mech is better, so please up mechanic for better benefit of us " So far gadgeteer line is pathetic beyond belief to the point at which almost no engies will perk it, while mechanic in it's current form already trained by many engies and mandatory in some areas except "total tradeskill whore" mode.

Decided to check other professions for "+nanoskill perklines"
Crats have 51 pm/si from loophole and 36 pm/si/bm from directorship.
Docs are 43 bm/mm from AFM, 50 mm from Embrace, 42 bm/mm from nano surgeon
MPs got 85 from channel rage
NTs can get 85 MC from notum syphon and 52 mc/ts from ancient matrix.

Group perks nano doctorate (100 to all) and starfall (15 to all) aren't avail to engies.

So I'd say +64 mc/ts is decent chunk. Main difference between us and other "nano casters" that while their perks give them nanoskills and some aad/hp/nr/nanoinit/+nanodamage/+healeff (aka useful stuff) - our gives +tradeskills as additional bonus.
Unfortunately for engineers - tradeskills and nanoskills are needed so much during most of our time....

I suppose you still could make up an argument on how our +nanoskills proffession perklines gives least benefit for the most effort, but it goes far beyond just pointing out inconsistency.

Personally i dont understand why we dont have Nano Doctorate access, all 'caster' classes do, technically we may be a hybrid of weapon and caster class, but then why our nanos are hardest to cast?

Mechanic is a decent perkline, currently i imagine most of us just need to keep it perked due to how wise iSOTOS was designed.

I dont think its worth bothering (not to mention possibilty of that to happen) to fight for changing Gadgeter all Mechanic , its our nanos requirements that dont scale properly with nanoskills available to us.

[Engesis]

Just a tought regarding Bio Shielding. Considering Absorb was nerfed, and it heavier affected engineers than keepers and advies (heals+evades), what is your thought of Engineers (and enforcers?) get something "extra" from Bio Shelding? And note, Advi gets better aoe heal than others. Like 1-3% more reflect or whatever..
Oh yea, even shield/reflected damage was nerfed..



Regarding Medallion / Creative Mind perk line, I think it shoud be tweaked a bit, maybe something that helps grenade weps more (maybe it could give proc for grenade wep?), but Freak Shield above level 200 is silly
Freak Shield: Self Advantage 4000 (20 AC/level)
meaning
level 100 = 2000 AC
level 200 = 4000 AC
level 220 = 4400 AC


This shoud be either modified or increase effect with more perks, so 201 and over gets 4k AC + 200AC/level:
level 200 = 4000 AC
level 210 = 6000 AC
level 220 = 8000 AC

Might even make more interesting to bring a Engineer in a Tank-team.

[cacat]

Well i guess in duel it can be very decent trick, still i dont think i'd dump 16 ai perks just to win one duel every half a year , but that's another story.

Afaik,he dueled every master on the server(that agreed that is),lost only to a few.

So not really useless if you do one part of pvp that engi can actually use his toolset and has a pretty big advantage when compared to most profs.

[kuznechik]

Freak Shield above level 200 is silly
Freak Shield: Self Advantage 4000 (20 AC/level)
meaning
level 100 = 2000 AC
level 200 = 4000 AC
level 220 = 4400 AC

Well, given the fact that ACs are that useful as it is now - I'm missing the incentive to push it.
If you cap ACs for your target - there is no benefit from better ACs.
Most pvp weapons got capped on crits with 12k ACs. In PvM you need way more ACs to cap damage, but efficiency of it is very low.
In order to get 10% damage mitigated in inferno (with 2k average hits it's 200 average damage = 400 damage max damage reduced to get -200 avg damage) - you need 4k ACs. And if you compare that to UBT (~50% or more damage reduction due to slower hits), reflects (24-40% for us), healing...

[MrKrosis]

I think you guys are overstating the uselessness of ACs a little.

Granted freak shield is less impressive at 220 than it is at level 100, 4400 AC is still not bad. That's almost as much as the best SL buff. -220 average damage per hit? I'd take that any day. You give an example figure of about 10% reduction in shadowlands. Well, reflect grafts are 13%, and I know 12 other professions that don't consider them useless. And that is for just 1 AI perk! Could it be made stronger 200+ or could engis use more/better AC buffs? Sure. Is a 4400 team AC buff useless? Hardly.

I also disagree with your stated uselessness of the deconstruction perk action. I used that perk all the time. Engineer pets have one of the best damage spreads in the game from player based damage, which makes them the hardest to cap with AC. It takes almost 35k AC to cap a buffed widowmaker. There are plenty of mobs through inferno that have far less than that, and most aliens don't even get 8k in their best AC until level 220-230 or so. Anything you're not capped on, you get on average, +400 damage per hit from this perk. 800 for crits. And it has the potential to work for anything that is attacking your target. And you can sustain it at a 50% duty cycle. Useless?

Several of your "problems" with perks seem to be related to their level as well. This isn't a "problem" that has anything to do with engineers, it's just how FC designed the perks. For example you state that alchemist dot perk actions are useless due to their low damage. Did you account for the fact that the first one you get at level 20, and the second one you get at level 100? While I wouldn't consider a 170 dmg dot @ 2s tick to be overpowering, it's hardly useless at level 100. I think I could take any profession in the game and list a bunch of perk actions FC gave them that don't scale with perk points invested. I'm not saying I agree with that approach, as I don't, but using it to "beef up" your list of problems with perks doesn't help your case because it is like that by design. It was intended to be that way.

I'm not trying to flame your thread, as there are plenty of things on your list that are genuinely broken or useless in their current state. Perk actions that require other profs perks are just about never used. Almost any perk with a 100% NR check is almost impossible to land nowadays. But unless they are 100% accurate, blanket statements of "x is useless" or "nobody uses y" or "z doesn't do anything" do more harm than good for a profession in need of love, because it discredits the rest of your valid arguments in the eyes of FC (Sil has even stated so several times in the past with other professions).

[PingBong]

Mr/medallion isnt a viable option for duels anymore, it never was for mass pvp, it was when LE had freshly came out and people didnt have their equips together yet so back then i decided i wanna farm a big title and the only way i saw that happening as an engi was through duels.. after i had done that i kinda stopped developing my engi which is why i still have them. I wish i could go more into detail about this but there is still a part of me that thinks i might play my engi some day

[Takun]

I think you guys are overstating the uselessness of ACs a little.

Just as I think your too optimistic, how ever both are just opinions, shall we continue? :]

Granted freak shield is less impressive at 220 than it is at level 100, 4400 AC is still not bad. That's almost as much as the best SL buff. -220 average damage per hit? I'd take that any day. You give an example figure of about 10% reduction in shadowlands. Well, reflect grafts are 13%, and I know 12 other professions that don't consider them useless. And that is for just 1 AI perk! Could it be made stronger 200+ or could engis use more/better AC buffs? Sure. Is a 4400 team AC buff useless? Hardly.

Your forgetting that AC-s, like most everything has diminishing results, there is no way this perk does -220 damage per hit.. sure maybe if you had something like 0 AC-s to start with :laugh: but such isn't the case, I'm sure any decent toon has at least 8000 AC-s..

Several of your "problems" with perks seem to be related to their level as well. This isn't a "problem" that has anything to do with engineers, it's just how FC designed the perks. For example you state that alchemist dot perk actions are useless due to their low damage. Did you account for the fact that the first one you get at level 20, and the second one you get at level 100? While I wouldn't consider a 170 dmg dot @ 2s tick to be overpowering, it's hardly useless at level 100. I think I could take any profession in the game and list a bunch of perk actions FC gave them that don't scale with perk points invested. I'm not saying I agree with that approach, as I don't, but using it to "beef up" your list of problems with perks doesn't help your case because it is like that by design. It was intended to be that way.

We actually agree on some things here, First your quite correct in terms of lowbie level required perks, and the arguement for them not being good damage at 220, how ever, quite a few professions do have perks that scale with level, or either off their AR / Skill (ex: funcom adding 3000-4000 AR temps)

Maybe that would make tradeskills a tid more viable eh? having perks such as alchemist, or deconstruction get better with the more chemistry, or mech engineering you have.. :]

But unless they are 100% accurate, blanket statements of "x is useless" or "nobody uses y" or "z doesn't do anything" do more harm than good for a profession in need of love, because it discredits the rest of your valid arguments in the eyes of FC (Sil has even stated so several times in the past with other professions).

The problem is nothing could every be 100% in this kind of arguement, because everyone sees things differently, and through their own eyes, for example.. some one could say leet dolls are useless at 220, someone on the other hand could argue that the nano init they give off helps them cap such and such nano... yes its a silly and stupid arguement, but an arguement none the less... the winner is always the one with the actual say in the out come, which is sadly enough for us, Sil / Funcom and since they don't see any problems, there isn't any. ¬_¬

[Engesis]

Before saying ACs is useless/crap or Freak Shield is crap (imo it just needs tweaking), here is some numbers (notice difference on the highest hits):


Fiendish Mortiig, level 231 (inferno)
Engesis, level 220, 24% reflect + 3% from Bio Shielding

"Naked" Fire AC: 2540, Radiation AC: 1405
Fiendish Mortiig : 181895 hp ( 45473 hp/min ) ( Regular 100% )
Regular: 181895 hp (100 hits; avg 1818, min 980, max 2677)
Fire: 109179 hp (62 hits; avg 1760, min 980, max 2584)
Radiation: 72716 hp (38 hits; avg 1913, min 1215, max 2677)

+ armor, Fire AC: 9723, Radiation AC: 8683
Fiendish Mortiig : 152067 hp ( 38016 hp/min ) ( Regular 100% )
Rgular: 152067 hp (100 hits; avg 1520, min 992, max 2112)
Fire: 91491 hp (61 hits; avg 1499, min 992, max 2073)
Radiation: 60576 hp (39 hits; avg 1553, min 1020, max 2112)

+ gift, Fire AC: 14723, Radiation AC: 13683
Fiendish Mortiig : 135307 hp ( 33826 hp/min ) ( Regular 100% )
Regular: 135307 hp (100 hits; avg 1353, min 969, max 1801)
Fire: 82369 hp (60 hits; avg 1372, min 969, max 1707)
Radiation: 52938 hp (40 hits; avg 1323, min 1008, max 1801)

+ Drone Shield, Freak Shield, Sympathetic Fortress Screen, Lesser Retaliatory
Fiendish Mortiig : 131370 hp ( 6914 hp/min ) ( Regular 100% )
Barrier; Fire AC: 20250, Radiation AC: 19320
Regular: 131370 hp (110 hits; avg 1194, min 988, max 1430)
Fire: 73455 hp (63 hits; avg 1165, min 990, max 1361)
Radiation: 57915 hp (47 hits; avg 1323, min 988, max 1430)

[cacat]

Mr/medallion isnt a viable option for duels anymore, it never was for mass pvp, it was when LE had freshly came out and people didnt have their equips together yet so back then i decided i wanna farm a big title and the only way i saw that happening as an engi was through duels.. after i had done that i kinda stopped developing my engi which is why i still have them. I wish i could go more into detail about this but there is still a part of me that thinks i might play my engi some day

Nerf our duel btw,you had 1 hp left ;p

Just like when i dueled Feble,i killed him and had like 14 hp left lol

[zartosht]

Is this guide referenced in the "Useful reference threads" in the stickies? If not, it should be.

[Dreadwind]

I don't remember when was the last time this has come up, but would it be time to ask FC to reduce the resistances of the damage perks again?


P.S. What is the current status of getting new grenade based weapons?

[Vozz]

Any updates to this?

Taunt Box still bugged? Decon not worth it? Gadgeteer still mostly worthless? I'm assuming we have access to full perk lines now (like Pistol Mastery 10/10), since I see Engineer listed in the requirements in my perk window?

Leveling engies want to know!

[Louderer789]

Gadgeteer was good for pvp for a while, but it's broken since like 3 years and was only really useful for RK pvm, not SL (due to proc damage ranges)

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Does anyone know what the % chance of success is on LE offensive procs?

and also def procs?

[Dumonde]

You can read that yourself - while putting in the following command line in your org bot (prefix may vary):

!leproc(s) engi

I am currently at work and cant say it for sure, but afaik all procs from defensive lines are 20%, offensive ones are 5 or 10%. If I am wrong, please correct me.

[Takun]

Reading my own post from 4 years ago has a strange feel, sound and sense to it - I used to be so polite and nice