Low+Midlevel instances and reward

[streppelchen]

Heya

with all the rebalancing i'd love to see some more low and midlevel instances in the game.
And i don't mean for paid-accs only but for all people,maybe along with a dungeon-finder(wow like) to get a team fast and easily. The main point i'd want to adress is that, even if there are enough players around at a specific levelrange, they don't want to team sometimes to do missions or any dungeon. The reward i'd want for this to see is something you could really use as a leveling char,something like symbs/imps/weapons/clusters along with tokens.
Of Course some people might say "oh no symbs are from pocketbosses only!!111" but, to be honest, did you ever kill a pocketboss at level 150 that was your level to get a symbs from it that you could actually use instead of just putting it into your shop? you have to be twinked to get the things that would make you better, or you'll always be running around in lower equipment and need friends to help you.

could be moved to suggestions too but i think it's one of the issues that should be changed while at the rebalancing of the professions and the game itself.

PS: Some nice leveling armor(living cyber armor anyone?) as a reward for this dungeon would be good,let it only level from like ql 1 to 50,then the next available part will be from 51-100, so players will have only have to do some dungeons at their level to get equipment that fits their level and makes em good enough to keep up with other average players, but not with those that player the game for 10 years(i'm in my 6th year btw )

[MyGift]

Be happy if this game dose not shut down in a year.

Cause after all those broken promises ( including last one that engine+rebalance will be out in 1stQ of this year ) ppl might get sick of it and quit...

[lainbr]

No more instances! FFS. New dungeons maybe BUT NO MORE FREAKING INSTANCES!

/period

[Biancha]

I agree. We need more stuff out in the "real world" to fight over

[delsabre]

I agree. We need more stuff out in the "real world" to fight over

Close all tower fields except 1 at each title level.

[Rurounin]

I'm actually attempting to write a script for a low level "dungeon", I'm planning to send it in to FC and hopefully get at least some feedback on how much it would screw the game up xD

[alfora]

no more instances! Ffs. New dungeons maybe but no more freaking instances!

/period

qft

[Waahash]

I had an idea, probably more of an amalgamation of several ideas rolled into one:

A quest that starts in the starter cities (Rome, Athens, Borealis) so that people that have already leveled past the starter areas can pull this quest if they aren't in decent shape for their level. The reward for completing the initial stage of the quest would be a backpack full of starter symbiants (more on these later). The quest could span until level 200ish, maybe, and at each stage of the quest you get 13 upgrade tokens that upgrade your symbiants to higher levels, and each part of the quest also gives XP rewards that scale like a daily, but no tokens.

The symbiants shouldn't give as much as regularly farmed symbs would, have lower requirements and lower modifiers (easier to put in but not as good to have, for people who haven't farmed all their twinking gear and those little knick knacks that aren't standard), and are NODROP so they can't be sold and can only be obtained by the quest.

People who have the means/cash/PB patterns can use their regular symbs and get more performance for their time, whilst newer people can do the quest for their starter symbs. The quest could be open to all who need SK, allowing everyone to level up or do their research even at endgame. The symbiants would of course be either used for laddering at that point, or just nothing if the person has alphas/betas/intels in.

The little details could be worked out but at least newer people or people who have been playing a while but aren't self sufficient at least have something they can do on each toon, with decent rewards while giving nothing better than can already be obtained, gives nothing new, doesn't completely obliterate the token grind (not that dailies haven't made it far easier, but tokens are a separate issue), and gives leveling players more chances to level outside of teams.

An MMO should encourage team play and social interaction with others, but at the least gives everyone an opportunity to move forward, albeit slower, solo. Since dailies have given everyone a goal that they can do daily, for the most part solo, and gives great rewards, why not give them something for not-terrible gear, but isn't the best either?

[n3oheals]

I had an idea, probably more of an amalgamation of several ideas rolled into one:

A quest that starts in the starter cities (Rome, Athens, Borealis) so that people that have already leveled past the starter areas can pull this quest if they aren't in decent shape for their level. The reward for completing the initial stage of the quest would be a backpack full of starter symbiants (more on these later). The quest could span until level 200ish, maybe, and at each stage of the quest you get 13 upgrade tokens that upgrade your symbiants to higher levels, and each part of the quest also gives XP rewards that scale like a daily, but no tokens.

The symbiants shouldn't give as much as regularly farmed symbs would, have lower requirements and lower modifiers (easier to put in but not as good to have, for people who haven't farmed all their twinking gear and those little knick knacks that aren't standard), and are NODROP so they can't be sold and can only be obtained by the quest.

People who have the means/cash/PB patterns can use their regular symbs and get more performance for their time, whilst newer people can do the quest for their starter symbs. The quest could be open to all who need SK, allowing everyone to level up or do their research even at endgame. The symbiants would of course be either used for laddering at that point, or just nothing if the person has alphas/betas/intels in.

The little details could be worked out but at least newer people or people who have been playing a while but aren't self sufficient at least have something they can do on each toon, with decent rewards while giving nothing better than can already be obtained, gives nothing new, doesn't completely obliterate the token grind (not that dailies haven't made it far easier, but tokens are a separate issue), and gives leveling players more chances to level outside of teams.

An MMO should encourage team play and social interaction with others, but at the least gives everyone an opportunity to move forward, albeit slower, solo. Since dailies have given everyone a goal that they can do daily, for the most part solo, and gives great rewards, why not give them something for not-terrible gear, but isn't the best either?

Why not make an easy mode button that makes all mobs hit for 20% less damage?
The game isn't that hard even if you just start. I would rather see that there comes a good starter area that teaches players how to play well then just giving everybody items that leads to lvl 200 noobs all around. We have enough of those already.

EDIT: the game is hard. But that is because of the skill system, not because of some bad equip. Example: Med suit works fine untill lvl 50 or so for most ppl, and it isn't hard to get either.

[Waahash]

Why not make an easy mode button that makes all mobs hit for 20% less damage?

RRFE OSB. Your point?

The game isn't that hard even if you just start. I would rather see that there comes a good starter area that teaches players how to play well then just giving everybody items that leads to lvl 200 noobs all around. We have enough of those already.

I can see your point here. "My" idea was that if you did the quest, you'd get something useful for it, something that you couldn't already get that was reasonable better if you worked harder for it, but you weren't stuck with GMS camping/trade channel spamming/PB pattern (and all the other things that come with making PBs) farming. That's why I didn't even suggest give them the symbs appropriate for their level

EDIT: the game is hard. But that is because of the skill system, not because of some bad equip. Example: Med suit works fine untill lvl 50 or so for most ppl, and it isn't hard to get either.

You'd see amazing results from switching off pred to some OFAB or some alien armor if you could afford it. I also don't see how your Med suit example even relates to the beginning of the edit.

[n3oheals]

RRFE OSB. Your point?

My point being why should the dev's spend much time on making the game easier?

I can see your point here. "My" idea was that if you did the quest, you'd get something useful for it, something that you couldn't already get that was reasonable better if you worked harder for it, but you weren't stuck with GMS camping/trade channel spamming/PB pattern (and all the other things that come with making PBs) farming. That's why I didn't even suggest give them the symbs appropriate for their level

i never had access to symbs while leveling myself because my first paid toon was a doc and they are too expensive. never had any problems with just some basic implants. They works ifne till a level at which you can easily get your symbs yourself. and implants can be bought in shop until ql 125, sounds like enough for me.
Only shades have a hard time here.

You'd see amazing results from switching off pred to some OFAB or some alien armor if you could afford it. I also don't see how your Med suit example even relates to the beginning of the edit.

The edit was because i stated the game was easy and I wanted to edit that. And sure, there is always an option to get better armor/stuff but it's only important to twinks really. QL 200 normal implants and pred armor will serve good until at least lvl 150 when you you will be able to farm enough money yourself.

So my main point was that if you don't want to spend time to get on symbs or to farm them just live with normal implants. No need to add a thing in between normal implants and symbs, just waist of dev time.

[Waahash]

My point being why should the dev's spend much time on making the game easier?

Note that adding what I suggested doesn't make the game easier for people who know how to play it, and adds almost nothing of value to anyone who doesn't already have a self-sufficient base to work from (nerfed symbs, as I said, might be pivotal laddering symbs, but at the terrible return you'd probably use higher QL implants anyway amiright?). Nerfed symbs that add less than regular symbs will at some point be as good as some symbs (namely ones that are lower than what you could currently use, but giving someone worse equipment than what they could also get at their level isn't making it easymode, you're still questing for ****ty symbs), but you can work for nicer things still. I personally wouldn't waste my time on that suggestion since I tend to just throw money at symbs or take them from friends who don't need them, the point is to help out the lower level people who don't have it laid out to an extent. Pocket boss farming, sure, is harder, but only artificially because of droprates. You'd either do clicking on mobs and running, or clicking on parts and running to somewhere else to kill a mob. That's what it boils down to. Time and effort go hand in hand. You can spend time farming 1 symb for a while, or spend time doing a quest for something not so bad, but in turn, it's something not so good either.

i never had access to symbs while leveling myself because my first paid toon was a doc and they are too expensive

Nor have I. Imagine if you had just started too.

never had any problems with just some basic implants. They works ifne till a level at which you can easily get your symbs yourself. and implants can be bought in shop until ql 125, sounds like enough for me.
Only shades have a hard time here.

Yes, the lower level symbs are garbage compared to easily obtainable implants from the store. The point isn't to gear this for people who know/have, it's for people starting up.

The edit was because i stated the game was easy and I wanted to edit that. And sure, there is always an option to get better armor/stuff but it's only important to twinks really. QL 200 normal implants and pred armor will serve good until at least lvl 150 when you you will be able to farm enough money yourself.

QL200 implants are either blitzed, bought, or handed down aren't they? Rolling a mission for ql200 imps/clusters is easier than doing a quest for something sub par. Most of your time is using Clicksaver/Mishbuddy and going AFK until you roll up that part.

So my main point was that if you don't want to spend time to get on symbs or to farm them just live with normal implants.

I don't disagree. I don't ask anyone to design/twink my toons. Questing for symbs that aren't too great = still farming. Only difference is it's less mind numbing than having a spawner if the mob isn't grey to you, and hoping on the droprate.

No need to add a thing in between normal implants and symbs, just waist of dev time.

Anyone that's played the game from newbie island didn't need no startup experience. Anything after that is technically unnecessary too. It's a matter of how you want to see it.

[n3oheals]

I agree with you on some points but seriously. A set of ql 200 imps goes for less then 10m. And if a lvl 100 paid player isn't able to get that he/she is just sad and really stupid. And up to lvl 100 the ql125 shop bought ones work fine.
I don't mind it if they add something like this but
1. it's not needed and there are more important things to spend time on.
2. Worse symbs that are easy to get? Just get a lower then perfect ql and they are cheap as hell. Less then 1m per symbs is fine with me.

[Waahash]

I agree with you on some points but seriously. A set of ql 200 imps goes for less then 10m. And if a lvl 100 paid player isn't able to get that he/she is just sad and really stupid. And up to lvl 100 the ql125 shop bought ones work fine.

Or newer, and doesn't have an s10 farmer or all day to spend on selling rollable items or the the same amount of time to dedicate PB/farming/etc etc etc or however it is anyone else likes to make creds. Running portions of a continuous quest gives a player a goal that just spending credits doesn't. Having the goals in a game does lead to player retention. As long as they have an idea of what they are supposed to do, where they are supposed to go, or something to earn reasonably means they are likelier to stay and earn it rather than dump credits on something. The feeling of accomplishment is a part of MMO design and it's partially the reason MMO's can be addictive.

That's not something FC would be against I assume.

Also you buy imps up to ql100 premade. The rest are TSed. That would assume someone knows what they are looking for in an implant (not hard to figure out, but there are still paid people out there who think ACs > something else )

I don't mind it if they add something like this but
1. it's not needed and there are more important things to spend time on.

I think it's more of the devs' decision what is and isn't important to spend time on. And this would fit in nicely into that whole Startup Experience that they are currently "wasting" time on.

2. Worse symbs that are easy to get? Just get a lower then perfect ql and they are cheap as hell. Less then 1m per symbs is fine with me.

Again, earning something > buying something to the human mind. I can concede that someone would burn credits to get it done with quicker (me being someone like that), but it also assumes someone is going to have the credits straight up, which is not the case in terms of newer players that are going to try and get anywhere. Yes they can also farm PBs, and maybe they'll do that too, for the experience of doing it, lack of credits, or any number of actual reasons. Maybe they want to farm something, maybe they were given some PB patterns by the org and they feel like doing it. Beats me, I'm more towards the mindset of goals = dedication to the game rather than get bored of silly droprates and a weird spawning mechanic.

As I said, we're going to see it differently in any case.

[n3oheals]

Or newer, and doesn't have an s10 farmer or all day to spend on selling rollable items or the the same amount of time to dedicate PB/farming/etc etc etc or however it is anyone else likes to make creds. Running portions of a continuous quest gives a player a goal that just spending credits doesn't. Having the goals in a game does lead to player retention. As long as they have an idea of what they are supposed to do, where they are supposed to go, or something to earn reasonably means they are likelier to stay and earn it rather than dump credits on something. The feeling of accomplishment is a part of MMO design and it's partially the reason MMO's can be addictive.

That's not something FC would be against I assume.

Seriously, you need a s10 farmer to get 10m? Never spends days doing the basic armor quests like I did? takes some time but anyone lvl 30+ can do it.
And giving players easy to get goals? Will just get them bored I think. Making symbs hard and better then implants gives them a goal i think.

Also you buy imps up to ql100 premade. The rest are TSed. That would assume someone knows what they are looking for in an implant (not hard to figure out, but there are still paid people out there who think ACs > something else )

And seriously? Ban those players. It is just to easy to just get symbs and ai armor. no need to think and i'll just pwn anyway. Learn to play instead of giving them an alternative to thinking because that is what AO is about. The complex skill sytem and the endless posibilities. Remove symbs for all I care, might even make the game a bit harder and more of a challenge.

I think it's more of the devs' decision what is and isn't important to spend time on. And this would fit in nicely into that whole Startup Experience that they are currently "wasting" time on.

So when does a starting players need implants above ql 100? Not anytime in the first 50 levels. So I don't think it will fit into the startup experience.
And more important things atm are fixing bugs and the balancing/new engine?

Again, earning something > buying something to the human mind. I can concede that someone would burn credits to get it done with quicker (me being someone like that), but it also assumes someone is going to have the credits straight up, which is not the case in terms of newer players that are going to try and get anywhere. Yes they can also farm PBs, and maybe they'll do that too, for the experience of doing it, lack of credits, or any number of actual reasons. Maybe they want to farm something, maybe they were given some PB patterns by the org and they feel like doing it. Beats me, I'm more towards the mindset of goals = dedication to the game rather than get bored of silly droprates and a weird spawning mechanic.

As I said, we're going to see it differently in any case.

So what is the point in earning something that is subpar? Doesn't feel like accomplishment to me. But then again, I did spend more then a year to get 220 on my first paid toon because I didn't feel like being gimp and power leveling all day long.

So hit a few PB's when you ding 100 and then use the ql100ish symbs if you like. Still worse and easier to get then the ql150ish ones.

[Waahash]

Seriously, you need a s10 farmer to get 10m? Never spends days doing the basic armor quests like I did? takes some time but anyone lvl 30+ can do it.
And giving players easy to get goals? Will just get them bored I think. Making symbs hard and better then implants gives them a goal i think.

Do you? I didn't. I'm not everybody else. No I didn't do the basic armor quests because I found it more tedious than actually farming NSII disks and using the loot from chests in missions. How many people will know to do that anyway? Take a gander in the OOC channels (on Rk1 at least) and ask them a question that is simple. Tell me your responses.

Also, I don't remember the exact source, but your view on "goals boring people" tend to go against how MMOs are designed. Just saying. Goals = addiction, like little candies. Not an immediate gratification as in "click button, receive toy," but a little work and a little reward makes for entertainment.

And giving players easy to get goals? Will just get them bored I think. Making symbs hard and better then implants gives them a goal i think.

No doubt. You'd also screw almost eveything else right on up by making symbs > imps. Any person who isn't going to commit to a simple goal is also not going to commit to 200/220 220/30/70.

And seriously? Ban those players. It is just to easy to just get symbs and ai armor. no need to think and i'll just pwn anyway. Learn to play instead of giving them an alternative to thinking because that is what AO is about. The complex skill sytem and the endless posibilities. Remove symbs for all I care, might even make the game a bit harder and more of a challenge.

Ban new players. That's some intrepid thinking right there. Who said anything about AI armors btw? There are froob armors I'll use on paid twinks and SL only armors I'll use on paid twinks as well for different purposes. I certainly didn't get that far had I been banned due to poor decision by a forums poster.

Also, I like how you take the slippery slope of "quest for items" to "never going to think again." How does farming PBs equate to learning anything over, say, questing for something?

Remove symbs all you like, you'd certainly kill a shade properly. I'm up for a challenge, I'm also not a 2 month player.

So when does a starting players need implants above ql 100? Not anytime in the first 50 levels. So I don't think it will fit into the startup experience.
And more important things atm are fixing bugs and the balancing/new engine?

Since when does anyone need anything above ql100? When they outgrow them, that's when. Surely they don't need them at level 50, I would only post something like that to throw off a debate on the forums or something wasteful like that.

Engine team has nothing to do with the balancing team. The balancing team has little-to-nothing to do with bug fixing. Bug fixing doesn't interfere with the startup experience. Again, it's their decision what/what doesn't go into the game, and how it goes into the game. You're almost acting like I'm having the final say so in what will (and I don't, just FYI).

So what is the point in earning something that is subpar? Doesn't feel like accomplishment to me. But then again, I did spend more then a year to get 220 on my first paid toon because I didn't feel like being gimp and power leveling all day long.

Earning something that is subpar to you, might be something nice to a leveling toon (or, hey, one of those newer people that might sometime come our way). That's your view on it, and I certainly won't try to wrest your opinion from you.

It's also a nice implication that somehow you're better because you did things slower than others (I too, spent more than 1 year to get 220 on my first paid toon) Want to measure cocks now? My first paid toon is still gimp (actually stripped except of NODROPs) and that's fine with me because I can change it if I wanted to at this point in time (I've moved it farther back from a few other toons I'd care to play at this point in time). I did powerlevel it, I know what I want from it, and when I decide I want to, I'll go and make it happen. I didn't need a quest to do it, and I didn't suggest anything for more experienced players to begin with.

So hit a few PB's when you ding 100 and then use the ql100ish symbs if you like. Still worse and easier to get then the ql150ish ones.

Inconclusive conclusion - you missed over a pretty hefty assumption I've made.

EDIT: The amount of time it would take to craft these quests is probably null compared to what we might initially anticipate - the easiest way is to implement the rewards into startup quests that already exist and adjust for levels/profession specific symbs, and those "upgrades" come along in later quests. They can space out which NPCs give which slot symbs too.

This is exactly how dailies were done, if I remember correctly. They utilized already existing content and turned them into mini quests. They added some text, added some NPCs into a building that is now taking the space of what used to be a useless building.

[n3oheals]

Do you? I didn't. I'm not everybody else. No I didn't do the basic armor quests because I found it more tedious than actually farming NSII disks and using the loot from chests in missions. How many people will know to do that anyway? Take a gander in the OOC channels (on Rk1 at least) and ask them a question that is simple. Tell me your responses.

I'm just pointing out how easy it is to get at least a little bit of money. And if you used another method that's fine with me. Was just making a point.

No doubt. You'd also screw almost eveything else right on up by making symbs > imps. Any person who isn't going to commit to a simple goal is also not going to commit to 200/220 220/30/70.

Symbs>implant already. Just not at lower levels because of the level lock on them. I'm not sying symbs need to get better, i'm saying the opposite.

Ban new players. That's some intrepid thinking right there. Who said anything about AI armors btw? There are froob armors I'll use on paid twinks and SL only armors I'll use on paid twinks as well for different purposes. I certainly didn't get that far had I been banned due to poor decision by a forums poster.

Also, I like how you take the slippery slope of "quest for items" to "never going to think again." How does farming PBs equate to learning anything over, say, questing for something?

Remove symbs all you like, you'd certainly kill a shade properly. I'm up for a challenge, I'm also not a 2 month player.

I'm not for banning new players or people who make bad decissions. But i was illustrating that it is freaking anoying to come across level 100 players who know nothing about the game and were just power leveled. And again a point against symbs at all since they take away choices by just adding all skills instead of having to choose.
And wth do shades have to do with this? They don't use implants or symbs.
And even a new player always starts with implants before symbs. So it would be the same for new players if they were removed completely.

Since when does anyone need anything above ql100? When they outgrow them, that's when. Surely they don't need them at level 50, I would only post something like that to throw off a debate on the forums or something wasteful like that.

Well, by the time they outgrow the ql 100 stuff they shouldn't be new players anymore. Or else it is just to easy to level fast today.

Engine team has nothing to do with the balancing team. The balancing team has little-to-nothing to do with bug fixing. Bug fixing doesn't interfere with the startup experience. Again, it's their decision what/what doesn't go into the game, and how it goes into the game. You're almost acting like I'm having the final say so in what will (and I don't, just FYI).

Hmm, since when am I making it like you are hte one who makes the decisions. I thought you were the one pointing out that I shouldn't say anything about it and let the dev's decide and acting like I had the final say. Don't turn things around here.
And if they have different teams that is fine with me. But do they have enough manpower for another team? To work on this questline?

It's also a nice implication that somehow you're better because you did things slower than others (I too, spent more than 1 year to get 220 on my first paid toon) Want to measure cocks now? My first paid toon is still gimp (actually stripped except of NODROPs) and that's fine with me because I can change it if I wanted to at this point in time (I've moved it farther back from a few other toons I'd care to play at this point in time). I did powerlevel it, I know what I want from it, and when I decide I want to, I'll go and make it happen. I didn't need a quest to do it, and I didn't suggest anything for more experienced players to begin with.

i just said I spend time on getting good stuff because I didn't want to feel gimp. Now taking away that effort and giving everybody a good set of stuff is not needed if they already have access to stuff that is decent enough to level in. (again talking about lower symbs or implants)
And where did I say I was better? I was just stating how I did it, nothing more and nothing less.

Inconclusive conclusion - you missed over a pretty hefty assumption I've made.

What assumption is that? That players are stupid until they spend at least 3 years playing? This isn't WoW mate, learn to play in a few months or leave sounds fine to me.

[Drakeep]

Well,

there are already some interesting instances, darkruins for example..

Enanching DR rewards maybe could be interesting.

An 80-100 instance in scheol, could be also interesting (scheol is a such desolated plance ), just don't add bounties, s10 already pwned ao economy badly.

PS: And maybe fix s10 bounties! doubled the price of iGoCs in some months!! *phear inflation*

[Waahash]

I'm just pointing out how easy it is to get at least a little bit of money. And if you used another method that's fine with me. Was just making a point.

10m to someone playing a few days, sometimes a month or so, is still hefty for "necessary equipment" regardless of QL. I can blow 10m easily, I even make verbal bets on ventrilo and blow credits by the hundred millions. I'm not that new person who is still piecing together a setup to make money, I can afford all the reckless spending I do, or all the expensive things I want. If I can't, I know exactly what I can do to get whatever it is I want, by working for it or earning the cash to buy it.

If someone is using ql200 implants within the first few days of their play time, they're learning what they need to faster than others. That's going to happen anyway. Once I got my agent decently set up I picked up on a lot of things fairly quickly. And hopefully they've come across a way to make money to afford their stuff by this point.

Symbs>implant already. Just not at lower levels because of the level lock on them. I'm not sying symbs need to get better, i'm saying the opposite.

Nothing here to debate, IMO.

I'm not for banning new players or people who make bad decissions. But i was illustrating that it is freaking anoying to come across level 100 players who know nothing about the game and were just power leveled. And again a point against symbs at all since they take away choices by just adding all skills instead of having to choose.

Power leveled noobs aren't going to go away. There are still people out there who want to know more about the game regardless of how quick others can be leveled.

Being a gimp is nobody's goal, and putting a quest in place for them to earn something rather than sit /afk getting pocket levelling/kited to wherever they are told/want to go, only pulls them away from that as well.

And wth do shades have to do with this? They don't use implants or symbs.

Quite simple really, though I admit I could have stated the unobvious. You take away symbs, shades have spirits that are their symbs/imps, and suddenly shades are super strong everywhere and everyone else is lacking on other things they would suddenly need. Shades would have to lose spirits or get implants at that point

Not that that will happen.

And even a new player always starts with implants before symbs. So it would be the same for new players if they were removed completely.

Touche.

Well, by the time they outgrow the ql 100 stuff they shouldn't be new players anymore. Or else it is just to easy to level fast today.

This is what happened to my agent. Around level 70 (just went paid at this point) after grinding ToTW and some outdoors mobs for a long time, I got invited to pocket teams/kite teams (I had helped someone with my FP MP healpet level 20ish because I didn't know how to get a better one). I didn't know what they were at that point, and I found myself soon enough, level 150 (being told to stop there) in S10 with ql100 implants. I left s10 right quick thinking it was too hard, and proceeded to do regular ely hecks teams until I learned a little more about my profession and that you could build implants/get symbiants. You can still be a newbie at level 130, like I was, because you were naive and didn't know what was what. The only direction I had was "make your level higher than it is now." I didn't even know what symbs were. You would now have to assume that my suggestion is based on a completely terrible experience. My org didn't have a TSer at the time, so implants had to be crafted after tipping someone (and they wanting hefty money that I had farmed for hours on end in foremans).

This isn't going to happen to everyone. I'm just saying that you can still suck at level 150. I wasn't prepared for the money expense to get even ql200 implants, much less afford even cheap symbs for 13 slots, or good armor (not even what I'm suggesting here), or nanos/HUDs/Utils/NCUs. I was, at level 150, in a 3 slot belt I picked up from a store terminal. It happened to me, and I don't think it's a rare occurence to be that gimpy and that naive/ignorant. I then discovered AO-Universe and AUNO which made things that much easier.

So your second sentence there is a symptom of a different problem, which is also still a problem

Hmm, since when am I making it like you are hte one who makes the decisions. I thought you were the one pointing out that I shouldn't say anything about it and let the dev's decide and acting like I had the final say. Don't turn things around here.
And if they have different teams that is fine with me. But do they have enough manpower for another team? To work on this questline?

I didn't say you shouldn't say anything. This started as a debate over the suggestion I posited on the forums. And yes, even before this argument took place, it has always been the devs' choice to put things in game and take other suggestions into consideration. I was merely going by the tone of the text I was reading, it came off a little...

As for the manpower for another team? That's up to them how to allocate it if they like this suggestion or use parts of it, if they don't disregard it completely. But, they had the manpower to make s7, collector, the dailies system, the new tradeskill window, equipment locks, etc etc. I'm sure those people are recycled into new things, and if they like that suggestion, then there would be allocation as they needed.

i just said I spend time on getting good stuff because I didn't want to feel gimp. Now taking away that effort and giving everybody a good set of stuff is not needed if they already have access to stuff that is decent enough to level in. (again talking about lower symbs or implants)

My gimp keeper doesn't "feel" gimp even though it is completely gimpy. What you feel as gimp doesn't feel as gimp to other people, due to profession/breed differences, playstyle differences, the difference in content that is being attempted, and expectations. A newer player doesn't have much of an expectation, except from the outdated "You can kill this easily" "This thing is **** mode" depending solely on the mob's level. You have different. Were I a fresh 220, I'd be wary of attempting to 2 man Mitaar (solo for some crats I know). Scale that back to a newer player, and it's the same thing, albeit harder to survive because of the less powerful equipment available.

And where did I say I was better? I was just stating how I did it, nothing more and nothing less.

Implications are implied. Again, that's how I took it because of the context of everything else you typed.

What assumption is that? That players are stupid until they spend at least 3 years playing? This isn't WoW mate, learn to play in a few months or leave sounds fine to me.

Ironic.

[n3oheals]

Actualy, I'm really impressed by the above post and I do agree I may have started a bit blunt.

In the end I think it comes down to this:
You think this is important and should be implemented while I think it could work but dev's have more important things to do.

oh well. at least dev's can now read both sides of the argument here so that should be enough.