AO economics for n00bs & fr00bs alike

[DJLost]

Its also only a luxury because items which are obtainable by the masses are hoarded by the few.

[sapphyra]

Wow...who broke the bridge on this railway? Talk about off topic :P

The original post was well thought-out and presented. Whether we agree or not is a trivial point. Kudos to Alienchild for writing it out.

[DJLost]

The Topic itself is a much needed discussion...someone just didn't like the way I presented my point...next time I'll not give examples

[Dextar]

It is a battle of the fittest, just like real life except you don't need a college degree to succeed here, just a large amount of free time.

Don't need one in the real world either, however many folks would like you to believe such.

[DJLost]

True.

[Anorah]

Alienchild, stop with the eBay comments. It is stated clearly in the EULA that outside trades for ingame materials or credits is strictly illegal.

[Zemkarik]

After I read this, and I didn't read everoyne's post I had a question about what happens when someone wanting to control the market price posts an item for sale on the forums and them has his friends pretend like they want to buy it.

They then fake (or actualy cuduct) a sale so that others believe that is realy what the item is being sold for.

Someone mentioned that the Marketprice isn't overpriced or underpriced but instead just priced at where it should be. But with this example it's not. You can trick the market into thinking that something is worth a value that it is not. Of course once people realise that they have been vamboozled the price will start to drop as soon as the misleading information is no longer provided.

As long as the misleading information is provided though people will post that things are over priced. Others will suck it up and try harder to make money so that they can get the over priced goods, but just because people are willing to pay something it does not mean that it is over priced.

As an example as my fixer, I found 2 GA Mk1 disks on solo missions in chests. This could be a sign that the drop rate of GA disks realy isn't as rare as people think and that the information about GA being rare is realy misinformation placed to confuse the market and raise the price. If this information realy is misinformation then GA disks realy are over priced because their price is set with false information. (As a note I am not trying to say that the GA disks aren't rare, only that it is possible that their rarety has been exagerated)

So the Market price of an item can be over priced if the market price is set by false information. (Just as it can also be under priced if the market price is set by false information)

[Zemkarik]

Alienchild, stop with the eBay comments. It is stated clearly in the EULA that outside trades for ingame materials or credits is strictly illegal.

Also just because something isn't aloud this does not mean that it doest not happen. It also does not mean that it does not affect the economy.

Real world example: In the US there are laws about how and who can buy guns. This does not mean though that people that should not have guns do not have guns. Likewise this does not mean that Gun makers do not take into account how many of their guns might "fall off the truck" when setting their prices.

[Alienchild]

Alienchild, stop with the eBay comments. It is stated clearly in the EULA that outside trades for ingame materials or credits is strictly illegal.

you have a certain gift of NOT GETTING THE POINT AT ALL, and get stuck up in details... there is a reason why FC warned us about the ebay scammers by having it in the greet message when we log on; because there are lots of people who use them. I would imagine that mostly the newer players do so to catch up with the older players, though I really have no proof of that.

[Reigning]

But I can't get a regular Alien Pistol for under ten million within a usable QL which makes them a luxury item and something I can't spare the credits for.

So I guess I did you a favour by selling you one for 500k. Should I have set the price higher? 1 Mil? 2 Mil? Maybe 5?

How far would you have gone to achieve such a "luxury" item? How high would I have known to set the initial price? Perhaps I could've made more credits from you had I known you were looking for a pistol in that QL range...or maybe not.

I guess I'm not into the whole 'supply and demand' thing. :/

*edit* lol looking back at my post, I probably sound like a greedy bastard. I'm not...honest. =)

[Duzytato]

(before fingers start smoldering, none of this is a flame, this is a point - counter point discussion)
I really should stop challenging myself and trying to kill stuff on my own since Docs weren't mean to solo. In fact I think I'll retire him all together.

Well, if you knew the Doctor proff wasn't a solo profession, why did you even attempt the unique without a team???

This is true and it was unfair of me to stereotype and to all you people in your underware with a diet coke and a cheeseburger, I give my deepest apologies.
Whoever they are and whatever they do, it doesn't matter. It's not the point and it detracted from what I was saying (it was intended to provide humor but obvsiously got someone a little riled up...sorry).

Oh it was humor?? Lets read it again..

Somewhere in a bedroom, there is someone with no life sitting down at their computer in fuzzy bunny slippers with a can of of Diet coke and some hostess cupcakes is waiting for the alien symbol to disappear so they can grab another quick 20 million worth of an item they can't use.

You have an odd sense of humor my friend. In fact, you aren't my friend, so how am I supposed to know you are being humourous? I mean, a little or a or a goes a long way to tell people you are being humorous. Nope, that above quote sounded like someone frustrated and resorting to stereotyping. I mean how do you know they can't use it? Selling it for cash is certainly using it..

Maybe people being polite would be a route as well. But hey, that's not the mentality...and it never will be. There is no items given out because people are helpful or kind. There is no uberness given to treating others how you want to be treated...so there is really no reason to be, unless you want some respect. Then again, when you turn off the computer, no one behind the screen exists anymore, or ever really did in the first place.

It's not a system change, or an economy change...it's a mindset change.

...my two cents.

Hey, for once we agree. Lets all be friends and be helpful and kind. Heck if that was the way the world worked, there would be no need for guns and no violence at all. Unfortunately, thats not going to happen anytime soon, in RL or in the game. The game is called Anarchy Online, that in itself implys lawlessness. So it would be "wrong" for everyone to be nice and polite.

[Internalfireh]

First of all, in AO you are never dependant of money. You don't have credits, who cares? No one is gonna kick you out of your home, cut your elecricity... you wont go to bed hungry. In AO, everything you buy is luxury. You might say that "but I need X weapon and it costs hell of a lot!"... well, if that "X" weapon is in the hundreds of mills, then you don't need it. Period. Almost everything you need, you can blitz. The rest is luxury. You don't NEED to be über, and you most definately cannot claim that being über is a right you have. It is like with respect. You cannot get it, you have to earn it.

If you believe that playing the game with stuff you can blitz is:

1 - Efficient
2 - Fun

Your wrong, some of the items you can only buy or farm yourself are required to make a decent progress within the game. Try solo with blitzed items as certain professions and you will fail. Try get a team with gimp armor and weapons, your going to find it hard.

Being 'Uber' is not a right, no. Being competitive is though, things you get from missions temrinals and the alike do not make you comptetitive. You cant go for Unique X, Y or Z because Mr Uber with his already attained Uber gear is going to stop you doing that.

Your right, nobody cares if its fair or not but dont come in here and starting to post 'Economics' threads trying to say that you should just shut up and suck it up. There are casual players and nobody can expect them to 'Work harder' (spend more time in-game) paddling against the current which is the economy in AO. I could spend X number of months farming credits and watch the price of something expotentialy rise above my potential income.

I couldnt afford 150 Mill for a Dchest back then and I cant afford a Dchest now.

The economy IS screwed and your thread does nothggn to help justify the situation because "thats the way it is" and that certian items are luxuries. Guess what, selling your Uber items (Luxuries) at such ridiculas prices has an overall effect on the whole economy as you start forcing more credits into the game people start raising thier prices.

Maybe if it wasnt for people like you selling stuff for truely pathetic amounts we wouldnt be at a stage we are now.

Go look at WoW, the Bind on Pickup (NODROP) works WONDERS for keeping the economy stable. Yes there are things which cost alot of money but WoW is deisgned so that ANYBODY can be competitive of thier own back, you cant do that in AO.

[Kaysha]

The economy IS screwed and your thread does nothggn to help justify the situation because "thats the way it is" and that certian items are luxuries. Guess what, selling your Uber items (Luxuries) at such ridiculas prices has an overall effect on the whole economy as you start forcing more credits into the game people start raising thier prices.

Maybe if it wasnt for people like you selling stuff for truely pathetic amounts we wouldnt be at a stage we are now.

Go look at WoW, the Bind on Pickup (NODROP) works WONDERS for keeping the economy stable. Yes there are things which cost alot of money but WoW is deisgned so that ANYBODY can be competitive of thier own back, you cant do that in AO.

Word!

[Anorah]

Snap!

[Duzytato]

Your wrong, some of the items you can only buy or farm yourself are required to make a decent progress within the game.

Certain items are required IF you want to make decent progress. No where in the manuals for this game does it say you are required to make it to 220. The only thing REQUIRED in this game is to make 1000 or 2 levels to get out of the backyard, or Jobe, or the shuttleport. Or at least that WAS the way it used to be. Everything else in this game is OPTIONAL. If you want to make decent progress , I guess it all depends on the definition of decent. I'm 116 right now and have been playing for over a year on the character. I consider that decent progress for a part time player. There are things I wish I could have, but I know its unrealistic for me to attain it without help. Thats the point of an MMO. If we could all do it solo, whats the point of playing??

Try solo with blitzed items as certain professions and you will fail. Try get a team with gimp armor and weapons, your going to find it hard.

Find yourself a good org, and people will be willing to help..

Being 'Uber' is not a right, no. Being competitive is though, things you get from missions temrinals and the alike do not make you comptetitive. You cant go for Unique X, Y or Z because Mr Uber with his already attained Uber gear is going to stop you doing that.

This isn't a sporting event. There is no competition. But since you brought it up, if you can take down greens you are competitive. You aren't supposed to be able to take down reds alone.

The economy IS screwed and your thread does nothggn to help justify the situation because "thats the way it is" and that certian items are luxuries. Guess what, selling your Uber items (Luxuries) at such ridiculas prices has an overall effect on the whole economy as you start forcing more credits into the game people start raising thier prices.

The problem with the economy isn't the uber items, its the amount of money in the game right now. That is being battled by FC with alot of money sinks. It'll take time for the economy to get back into shape. Pricing something exorbinately high does nothing but shift who has the money. It doesn't remove it from the gameworld. Prices are only as high as someone is willing to pay. If people stopped buying things at the high prices, they will come down. They won't come down though, until the money is reduced through the sinks.. If it takes nerfing things some more then thats what needs to happen..

[jokzer]

Hey, for once we agree. Lets all be friends and be helpful and kind. Heck if that was the way the world worked, there would be no need for guns and no violence at all. Unfortunately, thats not going to happen anytime soon, in RL or in the game.

True, it's not in the human nature for some reason.
However, while it has been presented before by quite a few people this

The game is called Anarchy Online, that in itself implys lawlessness. So it would be "wrong" for everyone to be nice and polite.

is still the worst reason I have ever heard for not showing common decency and good behaviour - or perhaps it's not so common anymore, since we're behind this nice screen called the internet.

This isn't a sporting event. There is no competition. But since you brought it up, if you can take down greens you are competitive. You aren't supposed to be able to take down reds alone.

Sporting event, no. Competition, yes. And I frankly believe you're off by one colour here. You're "supposed to" be able to handle yellows, as they're the ones just below your own level. If you get in trouble with greens (or greys) you're below what the game considers normal.

A bit bit more on topic:
As Alienchild says, economics is also a field of beliefs. This seems to be a case where we just have to agree to disagree. As a sideremark, I must say that Alienchilds "admission" that he started a trend of high prices shows indeed that other things besides supply and demand are part of establishing a price range - in this case it seems to be someone's "for the heckler of it" attitude.
But on the whole: Whatever, whatever...

[Duzytato]

True, it's not in the human nature for some reason.
However, while it has been presented before by quite a few people thisis still the worst reason I have ever heard for not showing common decency and good behaviour - or perhaps it's not so common anymore, since we're behind this nice screen called the internet.

I was joking.. you must have missed the wink

Of course its a terrible reason. There are decent people who act that way in RL and there are decent people in RL who act like jerks in game because they can hide behind the screen.

Sporting event, no. Competition, yes. And I frankly believe you're off by one colour here. You're "supposed to" be able to handle yellows, as they're the ones just below your own level. If you get in trouble with greens (or greys) you're below what the game considers normal.

My bad.. It is yellow..

[Rathorien]

Being 'Uber' is not a right, no. Being competitive is though, things you get from missions temrinals and the alike do not make you comptetitive.

Not to disparage your overall post but in the strictest terms, being competitive is not a right. I do get your point though. It is a reasonable expectation to be competitive ingame otherwise you are denied access to a lot of content which largely defeats the purpose of playing the game in the first place.

[Anorah]

Theres nothing competitive about hopping online to chat with guildies, or roleplaying, so how can you expect it ingame?

[Tarana]

Anorah, I feel I must reply after reading through this thread. Will you stop trolling? You're horrible at it and every post you make just confirms your stupidity. Bringing up issues that third world countries face has absolutely NOTHING to do with the topic at hand and Alienchild's points.

You would honestly be better off saying,"JOO SUXX ALIENCHILD!!" or "OMG BUT THERES STARVING KIDS IN AFRICA!!". Your attempts to be cohesive and provide relevant arguments aren't working. /reroll IRL

Nice post alien, I'm sorry your thread is plagued by trolls.

Lates,
Tarana