Definitive Research on Best PvM Doc Weapons Thread

[Rolfor]

1300 ar with mbc? you sure youre a doc? i have 1080 at 217 triple implanted ql 250 implants etc blah blah ;p

Need a bunch more ai perk points for the hw ai line though...

[Deaus]

1600AR with a doc using MA? Never heard of that one before. Using a skill emulator and the basic perks, 240 symbs and buffs I was able to get to about a 1400 MA skill.... but still. I still think that when you want damage, MBC is king.

But for the lazy docs, hey. Cant beat not having to farm a weapon.

[Ferret]

Ah cheers ferret - I'm surprised cos I thought it would be the other way round. My rate of missing is low for SL and RK, especially if I get trader & MA buffs, so I don't really notice any difference on defense ratings and missing rates (only on damage - much much better on RK cos I'm not hitting for min all the time, I just assumed RK mobs were wimpier all round!).

It's a shame though that attack rating isn't factored somehow into damage calcs, as I figure % of misses would be kinda important to get a true comparison?

Bit of a rhetorical question I guess, as it would be mob dependant, but this seems to be an important caveat that should be included with damage calcs perhaps, at least a 'max base AR' at a given level, along with the mbs of the weapon, or err something... ^^

Most things we solo for anything worth anything are in Shadows lands and there no one really misses much.

Oh and self buffed my ATR is more like 1200, sorry

[Rolfor]

I miss plenty in inferno... well, mostly noticeable on the bursts since i rarely hit with 3 bullets and fewer 2 bullet bursts than 1 bullet bursts too.. a majority of 1 bullet bursts actually..

Though, im behind you in ar somewhat since i´ve probably opted for CNC and ai tech first instead of the HW line..

[Silq]

1600AR with a doc using MA? Never heard of that one before. Using a skill emulator and the basic perks, 240 symbs and buffs I was able to get to about a 1400 MA skill.... but still. I still think that when you want damage, MBC is king.

But for the lazy docs, hey. Cant beat not having to farm a weapon.

Yea sorry, I just quoted what I told someone in the team I was in and didn't factor in the buffs I had running, with nothing running at all it's *checks to get exact figure this time* 1373, that's with 210 imps and not an optimal setup for MA so 1400 is about right for base - but not with any buffs running.

hmmm lazy... I have to disagree with that. I make healing my priority and I'm far from lazy when it comes to keeping ppl alive and keeping them running at full tilt which I see as my job, I know it's not as important now with the xp pool, but old habits die hard ^^ And as I play a tank as well (a 212 sol) I now see how flippin annoying it is when the doc is more intent on dotting and showing off their l33t damage instead of healing my behind. I can now appreciate the sentiment some players have expressed when they say if you want to do damage, ffs roll a DD

By all means a doc can and should add damage, but if I'm on an alt and I recruit a doc, I recruit em for their healing, and I'm not impressed by docs who increase downtime while they copy and paste their damage into chat (either by reclaim visits, slowing the damage output as team members have to heal themselves up, or reducing the damage of secondary healers as they have to pick up the slack - if a doc ODs an adv who's forced to heal their butt off and reduce their own damage, or steals agg from the sol who's frantically hitting heal perks and tms rather than specials, is that really an achievement? More importantly, is it adding or taking away from the overall damage output of the team?). Ye I know, I'm harsh ^^

I dislike teams running DDs, a team is good if they know their roles, make 100sk+/hr (120kish beating the spawn at Tiu ), and there's no down time for reclaim visits. For me that's what's important, I've been lucky enough to be in a few and be invited back, and guess what, no DD and no deaths. Just a blistering kill rate and very, very slick teamwork. With a good team like this I can do alot more damage in any case with dots, as the tank holds agg and the mezzer is onto the adds before they hit anyone and increase my healing output, decreasing my damage - everyone plays their role to the hilt. On top of that it turns the SK grind into fun again.

It's not true that all Damage obsessed teams are poorer - but in my experience, the average quality of SK/hr is lower in these teams - the team chat is being spammed with damage related discussion and ppl are paying more attention to that than what's going on around em - and I do a lot of pickup teams - there is a difference. The 'good' teams are more focused on SK/hr the team is hitting rather than damage rankings.

I remember discussions about BS missions, docs trying to explain to ppl that xp/hr was the important measure not xp/mob, so a ql250 mission was for fun, not uber xp SK/hr > damage, and the two are closely linked, but not wholly, there are a lot of other factors.

The ACs of Sl mobs have put a lot of emphasis on damage, min damage in particular, couple this with the pool, and I feel team dynamics, and the different things each prof can bring to a team to make it greater than the sum of it's parts (or damage *sigh*) is taking a back seat. Which is a shame cos a good team set up (and by that I mean 6 ppl who know how to milk every drop out of their toolset) can whup a team set up with a higher damage output on paper, who don't appreciate the importance of the support roles and what they can add - not damage but speed. For example, an MP will not only contribute their own damage, but will increase the doc's damage output as the heal pet means less casting - there are dozens of things like this that on the surface may not be obvious, but indirectly increase the overall kill rate significantly. I wish I could put everyone in one of the teams I mentioned above for an hr so they could see what I mean, tho ofc a lot already do and it's a joy to team with em =p


okok /rant off ^^

[Ferret]

Have to say I have found DD a great tool when in really lazy teams for getting the most out of the slackers. Also a bit of friendly competition is always good.

But I do not like it being run in situations where there is a high chance of death and it is important the tank tanks, i.e. lvl 300 Alien Generals.

As for places like inferno Sking, there is not really a high chance of death. Just to add I worked out how to control AOParser from ingame today with out having to alt tab so that’s cool.

[Heptagram]

Regarding attack rating: For sk-ing I think you will be ok with about 1100 or more. I met an NT at tiun the other day with a jame. She did a whopping 5k/min with damage from it. She had an AR on 914 iirc.

Silq, he he I might have been one of those docs abit too concerned with my own damage. I have tried to change recently though, and I feel I have less deaths now.

Aoparser is a magnificent tool for pointing out the slackers or leechers in the team. If everything is flowing nicely I dont pay much attention to it.

Having a good weapon as a doc is nice because you can always use your weapon for damage, whereas its not always a good idea to dot.

[Silq]

Have to say I have found DD a great tool when in really lazy teams for getting the most out of the slackers. Also a bit of friendly competition is always good.

I def agree it can be great for picking up slackers/semi-afkers, and there are a fair few of em, but I resent it when it's not taken in context and the other things a team member may be doing to contribute to the team are being disregarded.

Like if a crat is having to spend a lot of time mezzing (I don't mean a couple adds, I mean 6+) because of lousy pulling, their damage output is going to be reduced but it wouldn't be fair to say the crat is slacking - I doubt anyone would in fact.. or if the enf is a gimp, doesn't like agg (!) and agg is jumping around, so a doc will be healing a great deal more and interrupting attacks, again reducing damage but hardly slacking. Equally you can have the converse, where a team member is so intent on being high in damage raking that they are actually reducing the overall team damage output over time because they're neglecting using their other skills.

I appreciate I'm venting a little ^^ but I'm dismayed by the emphasis on Damage rankings in SL, and the neglect of the other critical roles in a team that when working together will increase the damage output of the team as a whole. I also feel it's giving newer players who didn't perhaps mission as much, and have done more heck teams, a lack of appreciation of how a team dynamic can work - which is why I feel the emphasis should be moreso on SK/hr as a measure of the team's effectiveness. Because it also measures the team effectiveness rather than one aspect of each individual's performance (which is hardly fair in any case cos if damage was all it was about reclaim would be a very busy place), it promotes a better incentive for playing as a team - I know for myself when in teams hitting 100K+/hr, with smooth uninterrupted play, everyone is pretty satisfied, no-one wants to leave and you can bet no-one's afk.

A doc doesn't just keep everyone alive, they can also increase the damage of their team mates (particularly secondary healers) by keeping them killing at max rate, as well as pitching in their own damage - it's a balance. At the other extreme a doc might OD everyone in the team but indirectly reduce the overall damage output of the team over an hour.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say no-one can claim they've done xxxx damage in a team - if you have any team buffs (SH anyone?), if your doc is healing you so you don't have to heal yourself, if the mezzing is good and you don't have to kite - part of your damage is indirectly down to someone else So I'm healing up the soldier - he doesn't have to interrupt his attacks with heal perks, I'll claim 5% of his damage then, or if my enf has an aversion to agg and is forcing me to heal way more, I'll bag some of that damage he's done to make up for the reduction in my damage Inaccurate but I'm just trying to make a point.. The damage you do is as a team, not as an individual.

It would be good to post if the tank is consistently coming last, or someone's obviously watching telly as a way of getting them to pull their weight. Used generally tho, I've more often seen it promote poor play than good, and I think after all that rambling, that's my point

[Ferret]

Yeah fair enough, I have seen it promote silly play too and have to admit for a while after getting my MBC I was completely obsessed with damage. But then again I have no problems outdamaging peeps as long as I am prepared to tank the mobs and heal myself, there is little difference in healing a sol or myself when we both have their reflect running or an enfo or myself when we both have enough HPs. I regularly team up for a fixer to hunt bosses etc and realise my damage output is higher if I lay off some so he can keep the agro and I don’t have to heal all the time. Also most teams really do not care that much what the doc is doing for damage as long as they are getting healed.

Anyhow back to damage (consider it for soloing if you wish ), I did a lot of tests yesterday and when I keep my dots running my damage breaks down roughly as follows: 55% Dots, 20% Burst, 15% Fling and 10% normal. The normal is ~ 900 1:1, so you can see that specials really do make a difference.

Not that I would suggest everyone farm a MBC, the world would be a boring place, but when looking at a weapon look for its specials and their recharge rate.

[Rolfor]

there is little difference in healing a sol or myself when we both have their reflect running or an enfo or myself when we both have enough HPs. .

I notice a BIG difference between healing myself or a soldier of equal level which often are atrox too. I heal about 10k at level 217 with my best heal and theres NO way i can use all 10k healing power on myself since that would mean that im close to or under 1 hit of health left. Also, even soldiers have far better evades than we do, no? way better ac´s most of the time, tms, several 1000 more hp etc etc which basically allows me to get more out of my heal and the time spent casting it.

Anyhow back to damage (consider it for soloing if you wish ), I did a lot of tests yesterday and when I keep my dots running my damage breaks down roughly as follows: 55% Dots, 20% Burst, 15% Fling and 10% normal. The normal is ~ 900 1:1, so you can see that specials really do make a difference.

1:1 i presume means speedcapped, max number of normal shots fired? I have similar divided % as you do but the really low percent normal damage in MY damage dump reflects the fact that i get maybe 5 normal shots of in a 30 second period... if im lucky. While also getting 4 fling´s and 4 burst´s off in about the same time.. which explains their higher percentage.

[Ferret]

Of course it matters what you are fighting, but in terms of SKing I bet you don't normally wait for the sol to be 10k hit points down before you heal for maximum efficiancy? Aye they have more evades and ACs, but I don't get critted all that often so it makes minimal difference.

Aye that is why normal dmaage is low, because of casting time. Exactly why I suggest specials are the way to go.

[Lord]

you must have some special magic healzor.. im 217 and only get to heal about 5,8-7,8k..or avarage.. about 6500 ^^


mabby its your special gasmask !

[Rolfor]

I think the most common number i see are 7500-7700 heal and then its 1900 temp hp which is healing also kinda.. and the point with having a tank that has more hp is JUST that. If i can wait until the temp hp from last heal i casted on him runs out i get almost 2000 extra healing power out of my 4 second´s recharge. This is just as you said quite irrelevant for sk etc and i dont mind tanking at all since i do that when i solo anyways

[Iwin]

So, has any given those new AI piercing weapons any thoughts, or even tried them? To me it seem like a very good option for Doctor. The skill cost is the same as SMG, and the requirements on the weapons & their specials are low. Same goes for the MM skill on them.


Any...?

[Milaim]

I considered using it, but when i found that i would be loosing two clusters I decided that I would either camp a mbc (like thats gonna happen), or go alien 1hb which I think looks nice.

[Heptagram]

you must have some special magic healzor.. im 217 and only get to heal about 5,8-7,8k..or avarage.. about 6500

I have specialist healer maxed, that helps alot

My experience is that with the 216 heal I can come close to completely healing everyone except tank class professions (enf/sol/adv) very low on health.

The 216 heal, Renewal of Being, does all you will ever have to do in SK situations - unless you are doing things like tiun without calmer

[Nemeria]

Hey guys,

Guildie and I were having a little debate between Kyr SMG Type 5 versus Dualed Machine Pistols...

I could swear that the conclusion drawn from this thread was that, at least for Docs, a SMG type 5 would be better because the burst recharge on the SMG is significantly better than on the Machine Pistols. Is that actually the case? Would the damage from a second gun not compensate for the difference in specials damage (I know we're casting all the time, but would that make such a huge difference?)? Have any of you docs out there tried dualed Machine Pistols?

Anyways, any information/observations would be appreciated.

Cheers,

-Nemeria

PS: I'm having trouble interpreting a lot of the data atm...a symptom of my being up for 30+ hours

[Heptagram]

Is that actually the case? Would the damage from a second gun not compensate for the difference in specials damage (I know we're casting all the time, but would that make such a huge difference?)?

This is an interesting post: http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...d.php?t=330603

I am pretty certain machine pistols will do less damage than the submachine gun because of the burst recharge.

[AlexisMarie]

bump so people can see this.

[Blondenurse]

Bump for sticky,

Or just a page-1 bump =)