Definitive Research on Best PvM Doc Weapons Thread

[Razilla]

I still don't exactly understand. Given the doctor's limitations and abilities, what exactly is the biggest damage outputter?

I'm hearing Sword of Dusk and Kyz'Orch Hammer - Type 112 or

Duel wielded Alien Machine Pistols, type five.

Which is it?

From what i have seen/heard/read Sword of Dusk and Kyz'Orch Hammer - Type 112 can put out some mad dmg.

But the nice thing about say a MBC is it puts out nice dmg you can easily be at full attack speed in full def and it works well with dots.. + It is ranged and in alot of situations I <3 range.

[Biochemyst]

Hey guys,

Guildie and I were having a little debate between Kyr SMG Type 5 versus Dualed Machine Pistols...

I could swear that the conclusion drawn from this thread was that, at least for Docs, a SMG type 5 would be better because the burst recharge on the SMG is significantly better than on the Machine Pistols. Is that actually the case? Would the damage from a second gun not compensate for the difference in specials damage (I know we're casting all the time, but would that make such a huge difference?)? Have any of you docs out there tried dualed Machine Pistols?

Anyways, any information/observations would be appreciated.

Cheers,

-Nemeria

PS: I'm having trouble interpreting a lot of the data atm...a symptom of my being up for 30+ hours

I'm going to have to go with SMG type 5, as I use dual Machine pistols (one is type 5) until I can find time and new org/friends to help me get my SMG type 5 on. While it's been a LOOOONG time since I've researched this further, until shown otherwise, I think it's all about the specials for a Doc because we're constantly casting. The supposed increase from duel-wielding is offset, imho, by the double reload time and the slower burst recharge on the dual MP's.

Again, unless shown otherwise, I'm going to assume that at the highest levels of gameplay (say 215+), the damage order will be:

High QL Kyr SMG Type 5 (~QL 210+)
MBC
SoD/Hammer (FA + Brawl)
Dual MP (Type 5)

Pistol sounds great, but my experience is that implanting pistol takes some doing....

/bio

[Healyhatman]

SOOOO, where's the info on MA + BoBs? Would lvoe to see the info on this, to know if it's really that good an option ^^

[Janetholmes]

we heal sick threads, resurrection is not doctors job

[lolaids]

nothing wrong with bumping a sticky, bump for a valid request

[Rolfor]

From what i have seen/heard/read Sword of Dusk and Kyz'Orch Hammer - Type 112 can put out some mad dmg.

But the nice thing about say a MBC is it puts out nice dmg you can easily be at full attack speed in full def and it works well with dots.. + It is ranged and in alot of situations I <3 range.

The problem with Sword of Dusk is the lack of specials, which nerfs about 75% of Doctor's DD capabilities. Yes, dots is a majority of our DD, the "best" weapon is quite dependant on playstyle, what other equipment and/or perks you have etc etc so there is no "best" weapon. The only ones who CAN be good are those with as many (usable) specials as possible, and of course with the lowest recharge possible too
Oh... anything but full agg will make the top DoT's worthless because of cast time.

[Janetholmes]

my doc is (hopefully) dualing typed ql300 axes in few days..
after small testing ill post some stats here to append those numbers in the first page

205 axes are way too lowlevel to give proper inspection on 1he

[Hurtig]

SOOOO, where's the info on MA + BoBs? Would lvoe to see the info on this, to know if it's really that good an option ^^

I would appreciate some info on this too.

Right now I'm leveling my baby trox doc (lvl 27) using ma and parry sticks (ql64) and I'm doing crazy dmg in Nascence. However I'm sure this will change soon.

I believe I read somewhere in the ma boards that dual BoB's is the best non-crit reliant ma setup at later lvls and I would assume the same for docs. Can anyone confirm this?

Also I would like to know at what level docs start to wield BoBs, both dual and single.

If it turns out that ma/BoBs isn't the way to go, can anyone recommend a weapon progression from lvl 1-220 for docs? =)
It should ideally factor in the higher ACs on SL mobs and the fact that reality favors melee users to a lesser degree than ranged users.

/Oddpain

27 trox ma doc and rising

[Healyhatman]

According to skill emulator, I should eb able to get one on at 213 with a fair amount of effort. With more effort, MAYBE MAYBE 212. I don't know about dual wielding though...

[Janetholmes]

ok.. dualing ql300 styr'ox axes is proven possible. Did it and in a hurry made little performance test with 11 ado-hecks. selfbuffed and all alone ofc

AOparser output:
1. You : 1 344 531 hp ( 67 226 hp/min ) ( Nanobots 6% Brawling 2% Fast Attack 12% Regular 69% Critical 8% )

after test i noticed i didnt have any critscope on, but the dmg is still pretty decent comparing to MBC and clearly ODing it (if numbers in first page is nearly what they should be)
I didnt use Dots in the test except Bore from CoLI10-perk. This is mainly because i have perked nanoskills to abilities and couldnt cast high-dmg dots, and secondly in large raids i usually press /assist q ubt /assist and start to heal tank instead of dotting.

perhaps mbc is easier to equip and have better modifiers, but im not regretting i chose 1he

[BigBubba]

The only thing wrong with charts like this is that it dont take in account Min damage or what weapons with higher end Attack ratings for endgame setups. The thought is nice but perks ... min damage .. and Attack ratings really change the settings . Thats why DD and final setups 220 docs would of been nice info to have.


Eunucha
Inner Circle
Since 2001

[epolass]

According to skill emulator, I should eb able to get one on at 213 with a fair amount of effort. With more effort, MAYBE MAYBE 212. I don't know about dual wielding though...

im interrested by your mathematics on that
this is what i posted on another thread :

using auno, ive made a lil equipement plan : i want ma skill

this plan gives me 621 in Martial arts.
i can add :
20 expertise
60 from Martial Arts Mastery
152 from a sweet trader.

621+20+60+152 = 853

I have to have 2000-853 = 1147 in MA skill to equip a bob. An i read that at 220, you only get 1134 in ma.

[Healyhatman]

275implants + ql250 Strong armor + 2 Silver Edges + the mentioned tower and Universal Advantage + perks + Buffs + Ability boosts + Ability clusters in the implants + .... something else. Maybe I should recheck skill emulator ^^

[Siorai2]

With all the hype currently surrounding Martial Arts, I think it's time I documented my own findings in a little more detail to help people come to the right decision about weapons.

To give some background, I used JAME from 126-205, then MBC until 214, Kyr'Ozch Submachine gun type 5 up to 216, and then ran some extensive testing with Kyr'ozch machine pistols before making my move to MA recently. That list covers quite a few of the mainline weapon choices for docs, and as it was all done with comparable kit, I can give you a pretty acurate rundown of how it performs.

First, RK and Aliumz is very clear cut indeed. Martial arts blows everything else clean out of the water. BoBs perform very well indeed against Aliumz, but on RK it's your fists that will do the most damage, and I've started swapping my Electro gloves for QL300 mercs and my Energy Aruls for Melee when fighting RK mobs. Once I have the second BoB I'll probably just stick with the energy damage as the majority of my attacks will come from the BoBs.

Now, Shadowlands really is a whole different story, and one which you should consider. I knew fists would perform badly in SL, but I really believed I could get some big tasty damage out of the BoB, especially with stacks of add-energy modifiers. As it turns out, the BoBs don't actually perform much better than fists at all, due to low minimum damage. The crits are glorious, the extra AR means I very rarely miss anything, and I can perk pretty much anything, but my normal damage isn't going to break any records.

Adding a second BoB will help in SL as the add-energy modifier is what really allows this setup to go from poor to above average in SL, without it, I can actually imagine fists performing nearly as well as Bobs but with bigger crits.

Now, consider the same amount of add-energy used with a type 5 setup, or a KMP setup, both of which have much higher min damage than BoBs, plus decent specials. When hitting for min, the best weapon will nearly always be the one with the highest min damage. Where BoBs make a difference in this equation is that you can generate more attacks per minute, and with every crit being equal to a good burst from a type 5, you have the ability to push your total damage back up into the top bracket.

So, from my number crunching, and from the personal use of these weapons, I can honestly say the best DD is as follows;

RK/Aliumz

1. Martial Arts
2. KMP (with 1400 burst)
3. KSMG
4. MBC

Shadowlands

1. KMP (with 1400 burst)
2. Twin BoB setup
3. KSMG
4. Single BoB setup
5. MBC
6. MA (no BoB)

BoBs aren't the clear cut winner people might expect. If Bubba took his full damage setup, swapped Mercs for Commando and strapped on a nicely twinked pair of KMP's, he'd produce better damage. and although I have the KSMG listed at number 3, thats actually a very close call, and will be dependant on how many crits are produced by the MA setup to an extent.

Sure twinking BoBs on looks cool, my epeen may never recover if I ever switched back, but because they're the recent hot-topic, don't go assuming they're the be all and end all of doc endgame setups.

As a final note, I would say that with LE focussing on Aliumz content, MA is going to be a very strong contender for that obviously, but remember that LE is also focussing on PvP, and my experience of PvP with my MA setup is that if I can't kill them with nano's (UBT, DoT, DoT, DoT, EP etc.) then I'm in trouble. I can perk some people I couldn't before, but I still can't perk an awful lot of people. AS is going to remain king in PvP for a long time to come, and noone is going to be hotswapping BoBs for an AS weapon.

[nanoforcer]

hmm, surely twinking 2k ma skill is easier than 2k smg?
just asking, haven't done any numbers myself.

[Siorai2]

yup, sorry, my type 5 was QL225, thats what I'm basing it off, so if you can get higher than QL225 even better.

I'm basing KMP's off QL249 type 4 main hand, QL199 offhand.

That way my comparisons are directly related. i.e the best of each choice I could get on with similar equipment.

[Angel-1]

I'm basing KMP's off QL249 type 4 main hand, QL199 offhand.

Lowbie dork question: Why type 4 KMP and not type 5? IP shortage with regard to fling? Or conflicting implant spots?

[Siorai2]

Dammit, I meant type 5, sorry, I'm being stoopid again. Trox and numbers just don't go well together.

[Angel-1]

Hmm, just took another good look through this. I had no idea that Kyr hammers were so good... we can get really decent AR with them even without having a research line for it.

Also, you guys that are using Energy hammers instead of 1hB hammers... are you popping out your brain symbs, or just using research to compensate for the lack of shiny?

[rsee]

i am sure this question has been asked, but i didn't see the answer. Why is the kry pistol type 4 and not type 5? how much does all this change with Le adding to pistol/ma/HW and raising attack rating?