Damage-boost/non-weapon-options

[_______________Zeizz]

I just read through a reply to an old thread at agentsector.com.
I proposed (as usual) agent only rifles with higher damage (300-900 (500) ..around the same as 220 ma fists). Unrealshadow commented that it may be better to increase the agents damage potential through something besides weapons instead. This may be true.

He suggested perk/nano modification that adds a % to damage. Say if black ops gave 10/20/25/30/35/40/45/50/55/60 % damage increase or if the % were split between assassin and black ops. This would give us the "inherent" damage boost we need without other professions screaming for a nerf after viewing riflestats.

At a 60% damageincrease i would do around 2k damage on inferno hecklers using my Jotr, something which is similar to the damage output of an enforcer with a maul.

Critting with an X3 or Pinpoint would do 4k+2.5k/6k+4k damage. So i would be critting for 6.5k with x3 and 10k with pinpoint/focus. In PvP the crits would be 3.2/5k before reflect reduction, after reflect they would be around 2.5k/4k. This would be very damaging to non-evade/hp/reflect-profs, but we are already damaging to, and the intended nemesis of those professions.

In my very humble opinion this would not unbalance anything. It would however give us what we were promised.

[Internalfireh]

10k Crits..... 220 Mas wont ever crit for 10k. With TC 10k Crits + a Full alpha is silly damage.

I think you either have the Normal High or the Crit high, not both.

% Incrase might work but what about Mimic NT + AoEs with +60%........

It could well be over powered and tbh I dont think you can keep miliking the whole "FC said we should do the best dmg, therefore we should" thing - Just doesnt work like that.

[chigga]

Originally posted by Internalfire
I dont think you can keep miliking the whole "FC said we should do the best dmg, therefore we should" thing - Just doesnt work like that.

anyway, what else is left?

its kinda sad leveling to 210+ and getting to inferno just to discover you are pretty much like a low-tl5 doc (or crat, or meta in some cases) there =)

[Internalfireh]

Its the same for all of us, the fact that MPs and Docs can OD most other profs nowadays (If setup to do so) is plain wrong.

I mean what sicko made up the stats on the Doc new DoTs ??!!?

The SL Dev chats are truely out of the window - So I think we might as well forget them :/

[chigga]

i was not talking about how powerful metas crats or docs are (but they are, indeed)

just we were kind of promised to be given nice damage (since mimic was "discontinued"), but in fact we have to rely on age old tricks to be of any use at all. namely ch (extremely nice for soloing, but thats pretty much it), ubt (very good indeed), le (with high level docs healing for 8k, yay =) ), baton (nice one), charms (of questionnable use), nsd (very situational), kels (same deal, nice for farming the spirit room and such, but thats it. no "real" use).

everything else is obsolete more or less. tms, mongo/challenger, ns, drains - extremely fun stuff, but once again, of very questionnable use once you hit 210. effectively, in terms of support stuff, we are as good as other profs get at like level 150.

those bits and pieces dont quite make up for a profession toolset imo. there has to be some damage added to make it worth something.

[_______________Zeizz]

1. Agents were always supposed to be, and were about damage.
2. Agents are about damage up to about level 200.
3. Both of the above is true with a peaked mimicing ability (at level 200).
*4. Agents were promised EVEN MORE DAMAGE THAN BEFORE at pre sl dev chat.
*5. Our current damage is COMPARATIVELY A LOT LESS THAN BEFORE in Inferno and beyond (lower half of damage chain, something that was never the case before sl).
6. We get add damage nanos and perk lines that are useless (or at best of minor aid)
7. We get weapons with lower damage than non dmg professions.
8. We get no new mimic nanos (and extremly limeted access to fp-able items).

So it is not as you suggest Internalfire, that we should just forget about what we were and what we were promised.

Our profession nanos are plain CRAP. Add 30 all dmg payoff from 400 nanoskill in three lines (=tons of IP from 1200-1600), and a run burst for 10 secs (yay).

Having a choise of lv150 support flexibility every 20 mins at lv220 with the only difference from 200 is the ability to instacast most of the lv 150 nanos at full off (we all know how much fun it is being full off with the lowest hp and dark blue def skills in SL dont we?), what is the point in progressing in SL at all?

It can't be because of uber loot, which is reserved for Adv's, Enfo's, and MP's, it can of course not be because of an usable increase in AR (which is of extremly limited value now, except for MA's), it cant be because of gaining access to better nanos (400 nanoskill in 3 lines = +30 all dmg)....so what incentive do we have to grind hecklers with the rest of you? Fun?...Noone finds it fun, what then?

My answare is that we at the present don't have any incentive at all. And this should be fixed... and fixed fast.

PvP is a different discussion and only of interest to a select few.

[chigga]

just to add.

currently i see the situation similar to that of traders: being agent is fun during 100-200 and extremely fun during about 200-203 when you get to cast everything you'd ever need in mimic (also mobs you are fighting at that level - i.e., adonis hecklers) allow for some sweet damage output.

after that, there is quick decline in usefullness.

[Phluff]

I've had to totally change my attitude towards my agent to continue playing the profession in it's current state. I've spent months building up my agent for the best +dmg setup and weapons i could obtain ( dchest, sinew of tarasque, joy of the race etc ). But after trying the all out dmg route i was still falling behind a LOT of professions, so instead of swimming against the tide i am simply waiting out the storm.

changing to the perennium sniper means i can sit on full def, swapping out dchest for azure bp means im now a more capable healer. I am now a lot less squishy than i was before, im am putting out less dmg but increasing my survivability. I am not 100% happy with the situation but it leaves me with aims for my agent, i have now reason to farm some chosen items (yeah, months of work ahead ) as gloves/sleeves/helm give nice hp bonuses

What I'm trying to say is, while we can try pushing for chage we also have to adapt to the current situation. we have strength with the new 1/1 rifle and the ability to use mimic doc + UBT, so instead of being full agg, doing average dmg and dying fast we must change our setup.

As for the dmg increase, i think it would have to be really carefully considered, simply giving a +% increase on weapon dmg leaves room for loopholes as internalfire mentioned. Maybe giving us an acrobat style +offence bonus could help?
or would the extra crit gained infringe on MA turf? (omg agents crit a bit less than us with less dmg still! ) I dunno, but it's an idea.

[Internalfireh]

I wrote a long post and as I clicked Reply the forums died!!!!

Anyway the jist of it was that The Dev Chats cant be taken as word now because for agents to be the best damage dealers in-game the damage they would be doing is silly.

IMOP you cant base your entire sugegstion on PvM, PvP IS a big factor and the numbers you are putting foward are a bit ambiguous.

[_______________Zeizz]

Since when did regular damage/shots have an effect for tl6+ agents in PvP? Except for ganking lower lv, low evade profs?

PvP is all specials, hence I see no reason we will be unbalanced in PvP due to increased rifle damage. We will only gank the people we easily gank now...easily.

And for mimic NT: We don't have access to any good 60% nukes. Kels = 120 NR, and the rest around 110. Therefore they will (with -140 MC in mimic) never land on a person full def with HHAB and maxed NR (which we will all have endgame). This illustrates the misconceptins non agents have about the power of certain mimics, and it will of course not be a viable option to mimic NT even if we get the big weapondamage I am asking for.

[Phluff]

zeizz, the % dmg increase would HAVE to have a wielding a rifle requirement. The example internafire mentioned could be exploited (c'mon, ever kelled people via greys or pets?) I do know the profession and can see how people would exploit ur idea.

Internalfire, it has been stated that mimic is not to be continued/enhanced, so we must have something to offset this. If we forget what was said in the dev chat then we are accepting that FC intended us to be so, I dont think people want to accept our current situation.

I don't think people would keep clutching at the dev chat straw if FC were to actually give us feedback, acknowledge that we are not where we are intended to be or simply tell us that this is how we are meant to be. 6 month material is refered to because simply that's the only feedback we have. Kinda sad aint it?

[_______________Zeizz]

Well said split.

[jutlin]

Well to me the issue is quite simple.

raise your hand if you can do anything solo in SL above penumbra if you are not in mimic doc or mimic solja.......


*crickets chirping*

k, so, they are phasing out mimic, but yet there is NO compensation for that phasing out. none. we have add min damage nano's, and a bail out? that's for soloing? or anything?

meanwhile shades, who have 25k damage perks, and what, 15 actual damage perks or something, also have these AMS/DMS perks that are basically enhanced ubar ubt's which make the mob worthless and the shade untouchable and deadly at the same time. while i have to mimic nt, wait 20 mins, mimic doc to kill say the chimera's for the shroud, and, die every so often trying, i see a shade that can solo not one chimera (in inferno i mean), but THREE. THREE.

point is, if we have no defensive perks, if we have no access to the spec4 doc heals, if we have no access to ubar evades, then perhaps we should have been the ones with a 25k damage perk? and maybe 15 damage perks like shades have (oh, don't forget their heal perks too).

the whine about us being promised more damage is not just about hey you said this and it didn't happen, it's more like, hey, you DID phase out mimic, but you didn't compensate for that at all, a level 200 doc can't solo much in sl, what are we?

[Internalfireh]

And you think other people are not in the same situation?

You think us MAs are not peeved because Shades OD us? Hell yes we are. We didnt get what was told either. ENgs od us, as do MPs - Its sickening yes.

I know what your getting at, I understand your problems - But some ideas are silly, You say Mimic is being discontinued - You are wrong, its not being developed anymore thats it, its not like they are taking it away from you.

And for mimic NT: We don't have access to any good 60% nukes. Kels = 120 NR, and the rest around 110

+60% Dmg, not NR % Check - Read

I dont know what the solution is, I mean you might just have to accept that fact that your not supposed ot be able to Solo above Pen and you are just a support class.

You do have great short term damage dealing capabilites and you do have access to the best Special with low recharge rates (AS)

[Internalfireh]

By the way...

Since when did regular damage/shots have an effect for tl6+ agents in PvP? Except for ganking lower lv, low evade profs?

Get a clue already, K ?

[_______________Zeizz]

Since you can not keep it civilized, I will simply ignore you Internalfire, I suggest the same for other posters.

I can think of 3 viable options for increasing Agents damage:
-Weapon
-% Increase through nanos or perks
-Making perk recharge time 1/3 of what it is now for agents.

[Roxxor]

Originally posted by Jutlin
meanwhile shades, who have 25k damage perks, and what, 15 actual damage perks or something

I'm still looking for my 25k damage perk

*whines* OMG I WAS TOLD I HAD A 25K DAMAGE PERKS, FC GIVE ME A 25K DAMAGE PERK WITH 5 SEC RECHARGE NOW OR I QUIT !

[Vipr]

Go play an agent until tl7 and then comeback for u MAs and Shades, mimic doc makes us the equivalent of a tl5 doc with the 1 exception they can still cast faster, shades may not have that 25k dmg in 1 perk but in a chain of perks. The fact is agents arent anything atm the rings we use for access to the other playfields are Artillery.. the symbs Artillery, what does that mean... i guess FC sees us as Artillery not support. Atm tho we are a poor support class, those mimic Nanos not being worked on anymore is the same as being phased out .... think about it, if a company lets say, sony stops supporting PS2.. normally means the next thing is out. We need something to make up for this..... we have nothing... Fixers say they got hit with a nerf stick in SL... wtf happened to agents.. we got hit by the god damn tree

[Internalfireh]

Zeizz, you make it sound like the agents situation is OH SO DIRE!!!! and your abosultely useless, when this is not the case, not a tall.

Stop whining and live with it, like everyone else.

[chigga]

Originally posted by Internalfire
you make it sound like the agents situation is OH SO DIRE!!!!

unfortunately, it is so at high levels.